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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 6, 2022 15:56:02 GMT -5
Hey Fellas,
I am mainly trying to make sure my .460 S&W Magnum is crimped tight enough to avoid as much crimp jump as possible. I have a Lee collet crimp die and a Lee factory (roll) crimp die as well. I have been told different things by different people. So is one better than the other? Should I use both? If I use both, roll then collet or collet than roll? What say you fine gentleman?
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Post by 45MAN on Mar 6, 2022 16:10:52 GMT -5
BASED UPON MY LIMITED MESSING AROUND WITH SUCH THINGS I DON'T THINK THERE IS A SIMPLE ANSWER RE ACCURACY, AND IF YOU HAVE THE DIES, TRY THEM BOTH SINGULARLY THEN TRY 1 FIRST AND THE OTHER 2nd, AND THEN TRY SOME WITH THE SEQUENCE REVERSED. OH, AND AFTER YOU DO ALL OF THAR REPORT BACK, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE RESULTS.
FOR STRAIGHT WALL REVOLVER CARTRIDGE LOADS I MOSTLY HAVE USED THE LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE, AND IT HOLDS CRIMP VERY WELL.
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Post by Encore64 on Mar 6, 2022 16:23:31 GMT -5
The Lee Collet and Lee Factory Crimps effectively do the same thing. They just accomplish it in two different fashions.
The Collet Crimp has provides a huge advantage with bullets without a cannelure. Also, with thinner walled cases such as the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40, etc.
Some of my super tight chambered revolvers require a light taper crimp after roll crimping to chamber. That's also my recommendation for maximum bullet tension.
For accuracy, nothing replaces trial and error. It's learn as you go or never learn. At least that's my experience.
Sorry if this is no help...
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Post by boatswainsmate on Mar 6, 2022 17:39:56 GMT -5
I've used dillion crimp dies for most of loading until I got scandium framed firearms and pulled the crimp on my 329 PD 2 1/2 Inch Smith. I found research done by Dougguy on the castboolits forum where he was modifying lee collet crimp dies to crimp at the top edge of the case. He found this really helped the crimp when using cast bullets. I have his work done my collet crimp dies in 45 colt, 44 Mag, 460 S&W and the 500 Magnum. I haven't pulled a crimp since in my scandium firearms.
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Post by singleaction on Mar 6, 2022 18:01:34 GMT -5
I use the Redding profile crimp die, as well. It’s on par with the Lee.
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Post by lar4570 on Mar 7, 2022 21:29:22 GMT -5
One of my shooting buddies has a 460S&W and tried some extra heavy crimps with the Lee collet die. It tore the ends of a couple of cases off while firing.
I used to do a roll crimp and then the Lee non-collet fcd, it lowered the SD on my 454 loads.
I like the collet dies, but they can be rough on case mouths.
For me 450 Bushmaster I shortened a collet die to give a crimp partway down the case body to aid in ignition because you can only taper crimp it so far...
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Post by singleaction on Mar 7, 2022 23:08:36 GMT -5
The Redding profile crimp die can be rough on case mouths as well.
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Post by z1r on Mar 8, 2022 11:12:32 GMT -5
When I started loading the .44-40 I suffered for a while trying to achieve a roll crimp that wouldn't allow a bullet to seat deeper yet wouldn't develop a bulge behind the crimp. Thankfully not long after, LEE introduced the factory crimp die. Problem solved. Since case mouths are paper thin, it doesn't take much and my cases last a long time considering how thin they are.
For my 44 Mag I settled on the Redding profile crimp. Roll crimps on heavy loads just wouldn't hold without bulging the case. On mid range loads a roll crimp is fine but I still use the profile crimp.
For the 45 Colt, I use a roll crimp since none of my loads generate enough recoil to pull a bullet free.
Same for 38/357. Roll crimp cuz I just don't load to maximum.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Mar 8, 2022 12:07:08 GMT -5
I think you can get what you need with any of the listed crimp dies ( have have both Lee & Redding ) you need a bullet with a good crimp groove, & need to be able to crimp the case mouth into the actual bullet crimp groove... seating short or long, will only be as good as a feeble taper crimp, if everything isn't lining up properly...
on my "boomers" I typically just do a medium taper crimp, & then run either the Lee Collet die or Redding profile crimp afterwards... just making sure my bullet is seated to crimp in the bullet groove...
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Post by 45MAN on Mar 9, 2022 7:31:39 GMT -5
on my "boomers" I typically just do a medium taper crimp, & then run either the Lee Collet die or Redding profile crimp afterwards... just making sure my bullet is seated to crimp in the bullet groove... INTERESTING, THE LITTLE I HAVE READ SAYS TAPER CRIMP SECOND, THAT IS WHAT I DO WITH MY 500 JRH LOADS, ROLL CRIMP FIRST, TAPER CRIMP SECOND. |
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Post by magnumwheelman on Mar 9, 2022 7:55:18 GMT -5
if you are getting a case bulge & tight cases in the chamber, the taper is nice to finish... but I typically don't have issues with bulged cases, if the bullet crimp grove is at the case mouth...
will admit to taper crimping last, with using bullets that the crimp groove doesn't work out, landing at the case mouth, at the COL I'm after though...
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Post by oddshooter on Mar 9, 2022 11:33:37 GMT -5
Encore64 wrote:
"For accuracy, nothing replaces trial and error. It's learn as you go or never learn. At least that's my experience."
He stated my feelings as well. I wish that I would have found the "correct" techniques by now, but I seem to always have something that is not quite right. That means open your eyes and try to understand what's happening. Handloading for me is full of variables that require me to watch each and every time.
I don't produce hundreds of the exact same cartridge. Instead I usually produce a couple of dozen samples of each load for the firing line. So I am constantly changing seating depth, crimping location/type, and weight of powders. That requires me to adjust, then analyse. And then adjust and analyse some more.
Each trip to the press seems to generate a new set of conditions to figure out. Crimping being just one.
Prescut
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Post by magnumwheelman on Mar 9, 2022 11:40:44 GMT -5
"Rocket science for the common man"
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Post by sixshot on Mar 9, 2022 15:07:49 GMT -5
Surely it has to be by trial & error, plus with the heavy loads you have to check for bullet pull by measuring your last round before firing & after firing the first 5. Having the correct expander ball can help a lot also, no amount of crimp will work if you don't have the correct case tension.
Dick
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 9, 2022 16:46:07 GMT -5
I really appreciate all of the input. Thanks, guys. I think trial and error is the only way to get a definitive answer. In the current situation with lack of materials and huge prices, trial and error has sadly become much more expensive.
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