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Post by parson45 on May 29, 2009 4:52:38 GMT -5
From what I see in the video, the Judge did not do its job. I still don't know how it was loaded, but the 410 shotgun, even with buckshot, isn't much of a stopper. You could argue that it stopped this perp, but follow-up shots and the trouble surrounding them would not have been necessary had the Judge done its job.
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Post by onegoodshot on Jul 8, 2009 10:34:58 GMT -5
Anyone hear any followup to this case?
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Post by Gary @ R&G on Jul 8, 2009 16:56:34 GMT -5
Guys I hate to rain on anyones parade but I work for the DA who filed the charge. I cant talk details but the truth will come out. And what you hear is only one version of the "truth". Parson are you sure he is a desert storm vet? newsok.com/oklahoma-city-druggist-appeals-records-ruling/article/3376800If anyone wants to discuss it give me a call. 405-740-7952 |
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Post by maxcactus on Jul 8, 2009 19:29:21 GMT -5
It's hard to see from the tape, but it looks like the kid was still messing with his ski mask when he was shot. Maybe it's the angle, but it didn't look like he had a gun in his hand at the time. He was definitely on his way around the counter, though. I can't say what I'd do in that sort of situation, but I imagine that with the adrenaline going, Mr. Ersland didn't even really think when he saw the kid still moving...he just plugged him a few more times as more of a reactionary move. Regardless, that's a crappy deal. I hope he isn't prosecuted for murder over this. THEY brought the fight to HIM...and he finished it. If this sort of outcome was more common, armed theives may think twice before deciding to rob someone at gunpoint. More to the point of the general problem than this specific case, I'm certainly no expert on the subject of armed self-defense, but I have read quite a bit about it over 30 + years. As implied above, the message to criminals from this incident and others should be simple: If you bring violence or the threat of violence to the general populace, you should expect to be killed! Not by way of any form of vigilante justice, but by justifiable armed self-defense - the right of any individual in a sane society. Unfortunately, in a society that has abdicated much of it's self-control, I guess we can't expect that level of civility nor support from our government. Max. |
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Post by Gary @ R&G on Jul 8, 2009 20:33:24 GMT -5
I guess we are getting way OT but I do expect a level of civility and support from my government. Who would have guessed when I started law enforcement in 1979 that the majority of states would enact right to carry laws. Who would have guessed that the supreme court would rule that the right to bear arms IS an individual right. All I am saying on this specific incident is get the facts before you make your decision. The facts cant be determined in a couple of news articles. I believe in our justice system and truly believe justice will prevail in this case. Whatever justice is.
BTW what has totally escaped attention is less than 1 week after this incident a homeowner killed an intruder in his home and was cleared in less than 48 hours. 2 weeks ago a jewelry store clerk shot an armed robber without consequence. I have heard no one second guess those decisions.
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kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
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Post by kooz on Jul 8, 2009 21:49:09 GMT -5
I saw one of the judges in action on the range a couple weeks ago. The shotshells are pretty much a joke and the accuracy of the .45s was pretty sick, the gun is huge for what it is, I'll take a conventional revolver any day. With the way that lawyers will use any little angle to make you look bad, I wonder how much flack that guy is going to catch for using a gun called "The Judge" for his "coup de gras" shot that is seen in the video ? Don't get me wrong, the guy who got shot had that one coming in my opinion, but the video does look bad.
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Post by Gary @ R&G on Jul 8, 2009 22:06:25 GMT -5
too big for a revolver and too small for a shotgun.
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Post by parson45 on Jul 9, 2009 5:02:15 GMT -5
Am I sure he was a desert storm vet? How dare you insinuate that our news media could get that wrong!!!!  I'll have you know that in the 80s I was personally involved in two stories that my station covered, and they got them both wrong. I don't have your inside knowledge. I work for Channel 4 in the production department, and the information we receive is what your boss gives us. Nothing against Prader (except for that pc "young child" description of an armed robber), and if Jerome did what it looks like he did in the video, then he's got a serious problem. As to why no one menitoned the other shootings that were blessed as good, the reason I haven't bought them up is that I was talking about the Judge. Also, there's no controversy about them. They were very clear to the DA and to the public. Since my first post on this thread, one of my pistol competition friends who works as a peace officer in our city has told me that the Taurus was loaded staggered, 410, 45 Cowboy load, 410, etc. Apparently, the 410 was fired at the perp with the gun and did nothing. The perp who was killed was then hit with a 45 cowboy load that cut a divot in his head, dropping him. The 45 Colt did its job, the 410 did not. As you said, too big to be a revolver, too small to be a shotgun. |
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Post by the priest on Jul 9, 2009 7:12:14 GMT -5
shotshells were being used in the .410?
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Post by Gary @ R&G on Jul 9, 2009 7:31:05 GMT -5
Parson, give me a shout sometime. I am in the Tuttle area and work for Prater (not Prader). Sorry I took your thread further off topic than it was already heading. I have just heard so much commentary and second guessing from people who make their judgement based on a couple news reports that I get a little sensitive. Sometimes we in law enforcement are our own worse enemies by our lack of transparency. But to protect the integrity of the case we cant release "the rest of the story" until a jury gets to hear it. BTW the press has been pretty accurate with this story. They have caught most of the inconsistencies on their own and reported fairly and accurately.
Now back on topic. Without talking specifics, it is all about shot placement. What is the old saying that a BB that hits is more effective than a 50 cal that misses.
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Post by parson45 on Jul 9, 2009 9:05:15 GMT -5
Tam will never forgive me for misspelling her new last name.
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rigby
.327 Meteor
Posts: 769
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Post by rigby on Jul 9, 2009 9:29:00 GMT -5
What there is something wrong? So maybe he did give him the coup de grace, so what. They came to rob him I wouldnt care if he emptied the gun into him. Once again more sympathy for the criminal then the victim .  |
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Post by onegoodshot on Jul 9, 2009 10:03:51 GMT -5
Just a poor teen looking for a thrill.
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Post by parson45 on Jul 9, 2009 10:17:22 GMT -5
What there is something wrong? So maybe he did give him the coup de grace, so what. They came to rob him I wouldnt care if he emptied the gun into him. Once again more sympathy for the criminal then the victim . That coup de grace is not an option according to Oklahoma law, nor according to the way my daddy taught me. When the fight's over, the fight's over. You don't go around finishing off the wounded. I don't know that Jerome still thought there was a threat. That's for the jury to decide. If there was still a threat, he was right to continue shooting. If there was not a threat, he should NOT have continued shooting. |
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Post by nobearsyet on Jul 9, 2009 11:17:57 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks that after you put one in him if he's still then you need to put another one in him?
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I'll have you know that in the 80s I was personally involved in two stories that my station covered, and they got them both wrong.
