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Post by bcelliott on Sept 12, 2021 22:44:15 GMT -5
I'm trying to develop a load that will prolong the life of the blast shield that prevents flame cutting of the scandium frame. Ballpark performance I'm looking for is a max of 1200 fps with a 210-220 grain bullet.
I have other revolvers for heavier 41 mag loads using different powders, but for this application, I just want an effective load that will allow limited practice without rapid shield cutting.
I surmise that using a single-base powder rather than a double-base will lower the flame temperature, but I'm guessing the pressure may also play as large of a role. I'm thinking 4227 powder might be close to ideal, but I'm wondering if any here might have a different suggestion of a similar single-base powder that would do the job better.
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 13, 2021 0:08:53 GMT -5
I'm trying to develop a load that will prolong the life of the blast shield that prevents flame cutting of the scandium frame. Ballpark performance I'm looking for is a max of 1200 fps with a 210-220 grain bullet. I have other revolvers for heavier 41 mag loads using different powders, but for this application, I just want an effective load that will allow limited practice without rapid shield cutting. I surmise that using a single-base powder rather than a double-base will lower the flame temperature, but I'm guessing the pressure may also play as large of a role. I'm thinking 4227 powder might be close to ideal, but I'm wondering if any here might have a different suggestion of a similar single-base powder that would do the job better. ***** 1200 fps from a 210-220 grain .41 requires PRESSURE. In my all-cosmic visualization, an aluminum N frame makes for a lousy pressure cooker. Were I forced to live with such an item, my experiment would start with cast semi-wadcutters DEEP SEATED over a fast or medium burn rate powder. To provide 800 to 1000 feet per second. I’ve seen that chintzy deflector blown out of the topstrap or cocked like a hangnail from modest firing of .41 Magnums. More to the point, I care less about damage to the gun than hand, wrist, or elbow damage to myself. An aluminum N frame in .41 or .44 Mag could get a lot of work done with a good cast bullet at medium velocity. David Bradshaw.
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 0:28:11 GMT -5
I'm trying to develop a load that will prolong the life of the blast shield that prevents flame cutting of the scandium frame. Ballpark performance I'm looking for is a max of 1200 fps with a 210-220 grain bullet. I have other revolvers for heavier 41 mag loads using different powders, but for this application, I just want an effective load that will allow limited practice without rapid shield cutting. I surmise that using a single-base powder rather than a double-base will lower the flame temperature, but I'm guessing the pressure may also play as large of a role. I'm thinking 4227 powder might be close to ideal, but I'm wondering if any here might have a different suggestion of a similar single-base powder that would do the job better. ***** 1200 fps from a 210-220 grain .41 requires PRESSURE. In my all-cosmic visualization, an aluminum N frame makes for a lousy pressure cooker. Were I forced to live with such an item, my experiment would start with cast semi-wadcutters DEEP SEATED over a fast or medium burn rate powder. To provide 800 to 1000 feet per second. I’ve seen that chintzy blown out of the topstrap or cocked like a hangnail from modest firing of .41 Magnums. More to the point, I care less about damage to the gun than hand, wrist, or elbow damage to myself. An aluminum N frame in .41 or .44 Mag could get a lot of work done with a good cast bullet at medium velocity. David Bradshaw. Mr. Bradshaw, thank you for replying. I'd like to emphasize that this revolver's purpose is to be carried a lot as backup and shot only when necessary. To that end, I'd like the most effective load I can make within reason; but I must still practice minimally to be effective with it when the time comes to shoot. The bullets I plan to begin with are powder coated 215 grain hp 640 nose design. Can you summarize the benefits for this application of seating deep as opposed to maximizing powder space and lowering pressure?
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 13, 2021 7:27:13 GMT -5
***** 1200 fps from a 210-220 grain .41 requires PRESSURE. In my all-cosmic visualization, an aluminum N frame makes for a lousy pressure cooker. Were I forced to live with such an item, my experiment would start with cast semi-wadcutters DEEP SEATED over a fast or medium burn rate powder. To provide 800 to 1000 feet per second. I’ve seen that chintzy blown out of the topstrap or cocked like a hangnail from modest firing of .41 Magnums. More to the point, I care less about damage to the gun than hand, wrist, or elbow damage to myself. An aluminum N frame in .41 or .44 Mag could get a lot of work done with a good cast bullet at medium velocity. David Bradshaw. Mr. Bradshaw, thank you for replying. I'd like to emphasize that this revolver's purpose is to be carried a lot as backup and shot only when necessary. To that end, I'd like the most effective load I can make within reason; but I must still practice minimally to be effective with it when the time comes to shoot. The bullets I plan to begin with are powder coated 215 grain hp 640 nose design. Can you summarize the benefits for this application of seating deep as opposed to maximizing powder space and lowering pressure? ***** While deep seating eliminates a full charge of slow powder, it is my belief efficiency is gained by holding the pressure dome rearward for a tiny fraction of a second. Slow powders can be made to work very well in a short barrel. To that end I would include Alliant 2400 in a DEEP SEAT experiment. 2400 may be better than slow ball powder Winchester 296/H110, and certainly better than IMR/H4227. I would use a mag primer with all these powders. A standard primer may be fine. To quote Bill Ruger, Jr., quoting from a German engineer of the 1800’s, “One carefully designed experiment is worth a thousand expert opinions.” Three legged stool of hand loading: gun, load, target. A four legged stool includes chronograph. A five legged stool includes pressure measurement. If you are able to compare loads & seating depths at dusk, try to observe any concussive ball in front of the muzzle. HS-6 is a natural candidate for load development, always done in conjunction with the target. Even though the gun may be intended to stave off a knife attack from a bear, I would want to know how revolver & load target at least 50 yards out. David Bradshaw
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Post by bushog on Sept 13, 2021 8:17:41 GMT -5
Does your 357 have a 4” barrel?
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Post by needsmostuff on Sept 13, 2021 9:49:10 GMT -5
Even though the gun may be intended to stave off a knife attack from a bear, Dang! Y'all live in some BAD bear neighborhoods. Glad I live in a world of coyotes and snakes where a small bore is about enough .
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 12:01:27 GMT -5
Thank you for the advice, Mr. Bradshaw. Much appreciated.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 13, 2021 13:53:46 GMT -5
I’m not positive but perhaps a heavier bullet at a bit less speed would benefit experimentation as well,.....something like a 240@1000ish
Trapr
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 16:29:37 GMT -5
Does your 357 have a 4” barrel? Yes.
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 17:02:08 GMT -5
Even though the gun may be intended to stave off a knife attack from a bear, Dang! Y'all live in some BAD bear neighborhoods. Glad I live in a world of coyotes and snakes where a small bore is about enough . This guy was at my neighbor's house, and this was a still from a video I took from about 10 yards in the road while backing away. I take small hikes through the woods with my children, and my neighbors and I have seen a number of these bears. I don't see a knife in his paw, but I'm not taking any chances!
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 17:42:43 GMT -5
I’m not positive but perhaps a heavier bullet at a bit less speed would benefit experimentation as well,.....something like a 240@1000ish Trapr I will have some of these made soon: www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-413-265-wnfp-41-cal-hollow-point-mold-multichoice/The weights range from 245 grains for the large hollow point to about 262 grains for the solid. From what I've read about flame cutting in the Ruger .357 max blackhawks, heavier bullets a bit slower cause less damage, so your suggestion is well made. So far, the recommendations for powder are for 2400 or HS6 for medium velocity. Anyone second these or have one that works better for you?
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
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Post by tj3006 on Sept 13, 2021 18:10:41 GMT -5
That is a big Black Bear, and way to comfortable around People. I think you need a No compromise revolver. I think I would want redhawk 4 inch 44 and Load a heavy cast. Trade your .41 if you need to. , But that bear looks like at least 250 lbs. With my family around that guy, I want power ! ...tj
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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 13, 2021 18:23:41 GMT -5
I like HS6 for medium range loads in big bore guns, I don’t know how well it’ll work in a medium bore though. I quit using 2400 decades ago, look harder at HS6 I bet it’ll suit your needs well.
Trapr
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Post by bcelliott on Sept 13, 2021 18:33:03 GMT -5
That is a big Black Bear, and way to comfortable around People. I think you need a No compromise revolver. I think I would want redhawk 4 inch 44 and Load a heavy cast. Trade your .41 if you need to. , But that bear looks like at least 250 lbs. With my family around that guy, I want power ! ...tj I've seen a black bear near our house that was conservatively every bit of 500 lbs, and I fairly recently startled a mountain lion in the dark by my house that was drinking the water purging from our well water softener tank, so I'm with you as far as the need for power. I have other revolvers that can deliver that power (.45 Colt Redhawk and .500 S&W are just two other double actions that I can grab), but the tradeoff is weight... The 357pd is 26 oz compared to 48 oz for the Redhawk and 56 oz for the JR500 S&W.
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
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Post by tj3006 on Sept 13, 2021 21:11:39 GMT -5
Well you are around bears more than I am, by a long shot, but you are talking 1.5 lbs. A Model 29, or a super blackhawk might split the difference pretty well., A LB and a half is a bunch on a long uphill hike. But i think i would pack that red hawk with garret style load...
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