Odin
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,068
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Post by Odin on Mar 5, 2021 18:13:18 GMT -5
Sitting in line at the drive through a couple weeks ago at our local coffee place, my son took notice of the guys unloading the delivery truck.
I looked up to see the driver wheel 108 gallon jugs of milk onto the lift gate. Wow, I thought, that's a lot of bullet testing!
Haven't the need for them right now, but I'm fairly certain that Miss Janelle, the manager, will be more than willing to have me pick up a sack of empties every couple days till I've had my fill.
Sure beats waiting till I can collect enough jugs at home. That's for sure!
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Post by bushog on Mar 5, 2021 18:22:11 GMT -5
We use distilled water in our humidifier since our. water is so hard.
No lack here....
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Post by 98redline on Mar 11, 2021 14:55:42 GMT -5
At the rate my kids go through milk I don't need to wait long to build up enough for testing.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Mar 11, 2021 15:48:15 GMT -5
don't let them get too far ahead... FIL had near a dump truck load of empty gallon jugs squirreled away in the basement when he died... during clean up, I found they were so brittle I just about would have been better off breaking them into little pieces & shoveling them into bags guessing brittle jugs would sque your results  |
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 12, 2021 20:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by bradshaw on Mar 13, 2021 22:52:37 GMT -5
***** Good job. Commend your work to hand gunners. Partially agree with your experience paper cartons may be better than plastic milk jugs for initial bullet contact. My “partial” agreement based on getting puny bullets to expand as designed. My experience decades before was miserable with so-called high performance bullets in mouse cartridges, such as the .380 ACP. Lee Jurras was a main instigator of modern defensive ammo, pointing the way for For-Bon, et cetera, and providing incentive to the big ammo companies. David Bradshaw |
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 14, 2021 7:29:07 GMT -5
From what I have seen in the "real world", once a jacketed handgun bullet gets under 1000 fps impact velocity the likelihood of it opening to any significant degree is greatly reduced.
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 14, 2021 8:52:38 GMT -5
On page 6 there are several HP and solid cast bullets from a .41 Magnum... That is generally what I use now.
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Post by bradshaw on Mar 14, 2021 10:58:56 GMT -5
From what I have seen in the "real world", once a jacketed handgun bullet gets under 1000 fps impact velocity the likelihood of it opening to any significant degree is greatly reduced. ***** Permit me to politely impose conditions on the implication 1,000 feet per second is more than an arbitrary number. "1,000 fps” probably asserts relevance as within the ballpark of the 1,125 fps speed of sound. (Speed of sounds varies with atmosphere.) Speer and Sierra both accomplished relabel expansion from subsonic .45 ACP bullets in the 1970’s (Speer “Flying Ashtray 200 JHP and Sierra 185 JHP). Federal Cartridge liked the expansion & accuracy of the Sierra 185 JHP enough to initiate commercial loading in 1977. My favorite of all .45 ACP bullets, the Remington Golden Saber 230 JHP, grew on the bones of earlier developments and convinced this shooter that exotic construction and superb accuracy can make a great marriage. Since those days, great progress has been made toward reliable expansion from subsonic jacketed handgun ammo. But I agree with your tone, that it is wise to learn how a bullet behaves before packing it out on a limb. As my water jug experiments continue, we shall see----in addition to success----expansion failures. Meanwhile, I encourage others to read your bullet vs water jug reports. David Bradshaw |
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 14, 2021 11:19:30 GMT -5
When I started out in law enforcement at the PD, we had issue weapons and issue ammo. No choice. When I went to the SO no issue weapons or ammo other than shotgun. I wanted to carry my Kimber Team Match II for a while but before I did I got several different brands of duty / defensive ammo and tried them on trapped hogs. The Speer Lawman (dont remember the weight) and the 230 Golden Saber equally had the ability to expand, penetrate and hold together better than most other factory loads.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,654
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Post by Fowler on Mar 14, 2021 11:38:04 GMT -5
When I started out in law enforcement at the PD, we had issue weapons and issue ammo. No choice. When I went to the SO no issue weapons or ammo other than shotgun. I wanted to carry my Kimber Team Match II for a while but before I did I got several different brands of duty / defensive ammo and tried them on trapped hogs. The Speer Lawman (dont remember the weight) and the 230 Golden Saber equally had the ability to expand, penetrate and hold together better than most other factory loads. Isn’t trapped hogs a wonderful test medium?!beats the heck out of ballistic gelatin for real world applications. |
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 14, 2021 12:51:45 GMT -5
Yes Sir it is!!
Especially to test how sideways things can go and how fast.
Ballistics gelatin might test how a bullet holds up under ideal conditions but it doesn't have BONES!
Bones, hollow cavities, veins, intestines and blood. That is all needed to test how tough a bullet is. Testing expansion and straight line penetration in gelatin or water is another great tool but sooner or later we are going to have to test in living, breathing animals.
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 14, 2021 18:08:55 GMT -5
...bet the pigs don't think so....
Would agree with you sir that the old "Flying Ashtray" .45 would expand under 1000 fps...but the way it had to be made with a light weight and WIDE hollow point made it a VERY problematic feeder in the .45s of the time... As to the Sierra 185, it didn't expand...
Federal used Sierra bullets in many of their loads back in the 1980s....one of them was the 185 grain JHP .45. A friend on Dallas PD was doing a perimeter search of a commercial building when he was surprised by the burglar who was hiding behind a dumpster. The man was holding a revolver in his left hand and was bladed like a bullseye stance to my friend. My friend screamed "NO!" which startled the burglar...unfortunately for the burglar he picked the wrong POlice to confront as my friend was a reloader and "Shooter"... My friend drew a Colt Combat Commander and fired one round...point shooting...no sights...and was so concentrated on the gun he hit the guy in the wrist knocking te gun out of his hand...
My friend's partner then came over and the suspect was handcuffed and seated to await the ambulance... A few minutes later he slumps over and dies... Turns out that Federal 185 entered at the wrist, traveled up the forearm, exited at the elbow, then entered the chest, through the left lung, heart, right lung and stopped under the skin on the far side... My friend saw the bullet...he said "Bob, it could have been reloaded"...
Things can to be made to look real good in Jello...in the "real world"...not so much.
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Post by Cholla on Mar 15, 2021 4:07:47 GMT -5
My variation of water jug testing, except I've done away with the jugs and use only the laundry baskets and tarps.  |
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bks
.30 Stingray
Posts: 131
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Post by bks on Mar 15, 2021 9:02:36 GMT -5
youtu.be/GTJYsc6PdEM This guy on YouTube has a pretty good idea I think. He incorporates meat, a bone substitute, and then water.
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