Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,559
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Post by Fowler on Mar 2, 2021 7:59:48 GMT -5
I went down last weekend on a quick hog hunt and too much road/sitting on stand time had my mind going.
My brother was carrying his ever present 1911 45acp loaded with a standard 230gr self defense load. This may or may not not the best option in that gun for a pig although seems it would be a worthy thing to try. I personally would load a heavy 230gr LFN cast bullet, it is a exceptionally reliable and accurate bullet in every 1911 I have ever tried it in and is accurate well beyond 100 yards if you can hold it.
So my mind wandered on the drive to a 250gr WFNPB mold I have for the 45 colt, years ago I played with a very similar bullet in the 1911. I had borrowed that mold so I loaded a couple boxes of bullets and when they were gone sort of forgot the test. I remember them feeding in my Les Baer just fine, even killed a couple pigs with it but trapped 30 pound pigs shot from 5' in the back of the head doesn't really tell you much. I do remember they were going roughly 875fps over the chrono and shot pretty well to 50 yards and fell off after that pretty quickly, but that bullet gave similar results in 45 colts at similar ranges as well.
So the question is would a stout 250gr WFN load in a 45acp specifically in a 1911 platform have enough gain to be worth trying? This would be a specific load for ranch/pig/varmint work, understanding the range limits. Since I own a similar mold now I could test away but just curious if it there is any real gains to be had...
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 2, 2021 9:03:19 GMT -5
I ran the Lee 250RF over Blue Dot in a Kimber with a stouter recoil spring and buffer. Shot great, penetrated well. Certainly a handfull. Today I would try it with Ramshot Enforcer basing my data off the 45 ACP thread in the links section.
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Post by seminolewind on Mar 2, 2021 9:26:10 GMT -5
That's the bullet I carry in a 6" 1911 during deer season. Accurate #7 will get 1100 fps with the 250 wfn, 45 Super case and doesn't seem to be over stressing the gun at all. The Baer has an 18.5# recoil spring, 26# mainspring, flat firing pin stop and a shock buff. It still functions 100% even with target loads. Only killed one buck with the 250 wfn, but he folded in his tracks.
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Post by 41freak on Mar 2, 2021 9:46:30 GMT -5
Funny you bring this up, I am currently doing some load workup to run 250-280gr bullets out of my G21. I plan to use it when pushing the thick stuff after hogs. I have several times been in thick stuff and couldn't pull up my rifle because of branches and vines, so I figure use a pistol and my G21 seems to be the ticket. I plan on running in the 950-1050 fps range out of the 6.6" barrel. Which puts the loads into the 45 Super pressure range (28,000 psi) which isn't a problem because I run a 22lb recoil spring and the case is fully supported. I also use the small primer cases for that extra little bit of web strength. I have been doing the load development with my 45 acp encore barrel and did use enforcer powder, while it did great it was a bit dirty (left debris in the barrel) but I don't thank that would stop me from using it if the accuracy is there. With my 10.5" encore barrel I was able to run 280gr cast bullets @ 1200 fps which should almost be in the range I want for the G21. I am also going to try some 250gr cast as well as some 250gr XTP's (45 Colt bullets) and see what my G21 likes best.
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Post by flyingzebra on Mar 2, 2021 10:10:54 GMT -5
I'd like to see the mould for this 250gr WFN bullet
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Post by bradshaw on Mar 2, 2021 10:13:58 GMT -5
I went down last weekend on a quick hog hunt and too much road/sitting on stand time had my mind going. My brother was carrying his ever present 1911 45acp loaded with a standard 230gr self defense load. This may or may not not the best option in that gun for a pig although seems it would be a worthy thing to try. I personally would load a heavy 230gr LFN cast bullet, it is a exceptionally reliable and accurate bullet in every 1911 I have ever tried it in and is accurate well beyond 100 yards if you can hold it. So my mind wandered on the drive to a 250gr WFNPB mold I have for the 45 colt, years ago I played with a very similar bullet in the 1911. I had borrowed that mold so I loaded a couple boxes of bullets and when they were gone sort of forgot the test. I remember them feeding in my Les Baer just fine, even killed a couple pigs with it but trapped 30 pound pigs shot from 5' in the back of the head doesn't really tell you much. I do remember they were going roughly 875fps over the chrono and shot pretty well to 50 yards and fell off after that pretty quickly, but that bullet gave similar results in 45 colts at similar ranges as well. So the question is would a stout 250gr WFN load in a 45acp specifically in a 1911 platform have enough gain to be worth trying? This would be a specific load for ranch/pig/varmint work, understanding the range limits. Since I own a similar mold now I could test away but just curious if it there is any real gains to be had... ***** Bill.... SLIDE ACCELERATION is my first consideration when exploring power in the 1911. Two factors play big on slide acceleration, bullet (weight) and powder (burn rate & charge). Compared to a stout revolver, the 1911----and all other DELAY BLOWBACK pistols----have a short RPM range which affords longevity. Therefore, bullet design & weight open the door to performance. I haven’t been there yet with the auto pistol, but my nascent experience with cast POWDER COAT revolver bullets suggests real potential in a top notch auto, such as your Les Baer 1911. Going too heavy on the recoil spring means battering on return-to-battery (return to battering). While excellent velocity is achieved through slow powder in the medium burn range, such as Alliant Blue Dot, the slide comes back hard. Unlike the great Heckler & Koch 91----which has bolt OVERTRAVEL of 2.9-inches, for a .308 cartridge 2.8” long----overtravel on the 1911 and its descendants is damn short. Long overtravel contributes FORGIVENESS to the mechanics of feeding, while reducing impact on receiver. Pistols don’t have room for long overtravel. Powder coating the 230 WFN may mimic the characteristic you seek with a hard cast 250 WFN. Accelerated slide operation, which begins with early unlocking, quickly causes damage not found in 1,000 round cases of proper ammunition. Kept within bounds you cut yourself a good experiment. As you allude, the heavier bullet drops sooner. When I load for the auto, the gun has to like it before I can like it. David Bradshaw
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Post by dougader on Mar 2, 2021 11:57:09 GMT -5
I ran the Beartooth 265 WFNGC with Blue Dot in a G21 set up for 45 Super. Don't know if I'd do it again without a setup like they do for 460 Rowland with the expansion chamber compensator to slow down the slide.
I ran the 265 to 1,000 fps and beyond... the beyond was too much of a good thing in my mind (1177 fps). The 1,000 fps seemed fine to me, but the "return to battery" as David describes is a real deal. You grab a 22-24# or even 26# recoil spring and you slow down backward travel, but then the slide really slams home hard after the shell is ejected.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,559
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Post by Fowler on Mar 2, 2021 12:13:48 GMT -5
Just for the record I was thinking of 850-900fps power wise, not even trying to match Buffalo Bore's load. I will continue to run the standard 230gr load for most of my shooting but this might be a job specific load for no more reason than the novelty of creating it for fun. I am not trying to run this load in high volume or batter finely made 1911 guns, if I wanted a 45acp to batter I buy something like a Glock...
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edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,106
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Post by edk on Mar 2, 2021 21:31:32 GMT -5
A proven flat-nose cast bullet for the 1911. I have this in a Lee group buy mold and it is just great.
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Post by leadhound on Mar 2, 2021 23:11:38 GMT -5
www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/want-to-start-building-a-45acp-woods-load.637636/Lots of threads like this around. You’ll see similarities already. Some have used the Keith 452423 as well as the 452424 semi-wadcutters there was a lighter WFN designed for the 1911 known as the BD45 mold that had the widest meplat to feed reliably. Good luck, sounds like fun. I was playing with the heavies years ago, I need to pick up another steel platform and resume. When I do, I will set up similar to Seminolewind’s, sounds like a proper 45 super rig.
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Post by dougader on Mar 3, 2021 15:35:48 GMT -5
The 265 grain WFNGC I ran fed 100% in a G21sf... with a Lone Wolf 6", 4-port barrel.
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Post by 41freak on Mar 6, 2021 21:49:40 GMT -5
I fired up the pot and cast some LBT 250GR LFN bullets, I will be powder coating them for my 45 acp's.
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Post by flyingzebra on Mar 7, 2021 0:39:16 GMT -5
The 265 grain WFNGC I ran fed 100% in a G21sf... with a Lone Wolf 6", 4-port barrel. What's the velocity? What's your load?
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Post by ddixie884 on Mar 7, 2021 2:32:16 GMT -5
The 265 grain WFNGC I ran fed 100% in a G21sf... with a Lone Wolf 6", 4-port barrel. Boy, that is a goood lookin round............
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 7, 2021 10:32:15 GMT -5
That thing ought to have "Mack" or "International" on it! LOL!
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