LBT Bullets !

[tj3006]

I see  lots of threads that Bring up LBT bullets !   Got a link ? i cant find them...

[Fowler]

LBT is a mold maker and was the “inventor” of the popular WFN and LFN bulletin designs. The company (a one man shop) never commercially cast bullets for sale. He makes very good molds and I have a pile of them.

[whitworth]

Google: Lead Bullet Technology

[edk]

Note that there is no standardization of the terminology (e.g. WFN, LFN, WLN, etc) in the industry. As Fowler pointed out Veral Smith "invented" these specific bullet profiles along with the associated terminology. Although there is some debate as to who was really first in this regard (and I'll leave that up to someone else to wrestle with) Veral did nonetheless coin these terms. Similarly named bullet profiles from most commercial casters and mold makers will not necessarily present the same meplat diameters and ogive as those from LBT so beware.

[whitworth]

If the “LFN,” “WFN,” or “WLN” didn’t come from an LBT mold, it isn’t a LFN, WFN, or WLN. Much like the oft-abused term “Keith bullet.” Hence Keith-style...

[rkrcpa]

Is there a good source for load data for this style bullet? I know that Hodgdon has info for their powders but what about Alliant powders, particularly Unique and 2400?

[mart]

Cast Performance Bullets and Beartooth Bullets both have LBT profiles.

[paul105]

Veral used to post on Graybear outdoors (maybe still does). He confirmed that Montana Bullet Works used LBT (Veral Smith's Lead Bullet Technologies) molds to cast their WFN, WLN, LFN bullets.

www.montanabulletworks.com/

Paul

[edk]

Oct 8, 2019 13:49:32 GMT -5 mart said:

Cast Performance Bullets and Beartooth Bullets both have LBT profiles.

More precisely they have "WFN/LFN/WLN" profiles. Veral Smith is on record (several years back) that they have never purchased any of his molds. I believe paul105 is correct about Veral's comments concerning Montana. Hodgdon reloading has also come up. Note that in their data (and to their credit) they specifically list CPB WFN, etc. and this is understandable given CPB's commercial popularity - just can't assume CPB = "LBT" data (although likely very close).

[whitworth]

Cast Performance does not use LBT molds.

[bradshaw]

The terminology is not clear: Wide Flat Nose, Long Flat Nose, Wide Long Nose, etc. A bullet with continuous ogive from BEARING SURFACE to a flat MEPLAT can have different features, including:
* short ogive, wide meplat----WFN.
* long ogive, wide meplat----WLN.
* long ogive, narrow meplat----LFN.
..... et cetera.

To a purist, a Keith bullets is one specifically configured by Elmer Keith. Semi Wad Cutters (SWC) with Keith features----and some a little loose on his details----often are referred to a s “Keith” bullets. It may be inevitable that a bullet which looks like a Veral Smith is referred to as an “LBT,” especially as others make similar profiles. The WFN and LFN are well proven, but so are various SWC designs. As Dick Thompson instructs, and I wholeheartedly support, the vast majority of American game is thin-skinned and responds well to a bullet offering a degree of PLASTIC DEFORMATION. The notion of a rock-hard bullet of a given profile as superior to all others for the majority of American game is malarkey, and plus into the dead theory that, either hydrostatic shock doesn’t exist, or a revolver doesn’t produce the velocity to generate hydrostatic shock.

Lee Martin has examined various of these cast bullets with a comparator and found all follow one or another established ogives.

The wadcutter came before any of these post-modern cast bullets, and was discovered before any of us were born to register impact more graphic than the old pumpkin ball round nose. While the wadcutter registers beaucoup impact, penetration quality is poor, stability in meat is poor, and stability at long range poor. The quest was on to design a bullet to combine punch and penetration. Within the search, a little punch was traded for more up-close punch.

It is my assessment penetration in meat and stability at long range share a particular of BALANCE which mandates CoF (CENTER of FORM) be separate from CoG (Center of Gravity). A symmetrical wadcutter is the poster child of coincident CoF and CoG, as the two share the same point in the center of the bullet. This is a definition of real coincidence, and the homely wadcutter is doomed to very limited excellence.

I dislike a wadcutter beveled to form a Truncated Cone. These are called hunting bullets. In my experience, mediocre accuracy at distance supports their ugliness. Except for the H&G #68 .45 ACP 200 grain TC----a handsome Truncated Cone----I’ve taken no game with them. Not even tried ‘em on livestock, because these slugs can’t hitch a ride in my pistols.
David Bradshaw

[boolitdesigner]

^^^^^^^ Would you please tell us what a long meplat is.

[bradshaw]

Oct 9, 2019 7:46:38 GMT -5 boolitdesigner said:

^^^^^^^ Would you please tell us what a long meplat is.

*****
Thanks. A "long meplat” is a typo!
David Bradshaw

[mart]

Oct 9, 2019 5:59:42 GMT -5 edk said:

Oct 8, 2019 13:49:32 GMT -5 mart said:

Cast Performance Bullets and Beartooth Bullets both have LBT profiles.

More precisely they have "WFN/LFN/WLN" profiles. Veral Smith is on record (several years back) that they have never purchased any of his molds. I believe paul105 is correct about Veral's comments concerning Montana. Hodgdon reloading has also come up. Note that in their data (and to their credit) they specifically list CPB WFN, etc. and this is understandable given CPB's commercial popularity - just can't assume CPB = "LBT" data (although likely very close).

I stand corrected. What I should have said was they carry LBT style profiles. My humble apologies.