Dan Wesson 715

[matt56]

A little while ago my LGS got in a used Dan Wesson/CZ 715 6 inch in on trade.  I like Dan Wessons and I've wanted a new 715 for a while but without the new DW price.  A used 715 was the ticket and best of all they were having a 10% off used gun sale at the time.  I looked this one over, it had a few cosmetic scratches but nothing major and I stuck it on layaway.  



Well I got the gun home the other night and standard procedure is to clean it in and out.  What I don't understand is why gun stores won't clean their inventory. Anyways this gun was well fired with lots of soot stuck to the original cosmoline.  Much to my surprise when cleaning it and checking it over I found horrible marks in the barrel underneath some leading I had scrubbed out, these marks were about an inch in after the forcing cone.  I tried to think back to the pre purchase inspection and I don't think I looked down the bore, I usually check the cone and the barrel for erosion but you don't always expect damage further down.  DW barrels are easily changed so I probably didn't think of it.  The problem is I only own 15s and super mags and no 715s yet.   No spare barrels for a 715.  I was thinking oversight by me and that the original owner may have damaged the barrel trying to slug it or even had a squib and tried to pound it out.

Either way I chalked it up to oversight by me, I contacted Dan Wesson/CZ and they called me back and let me place an order for a barrel over the phone.  It came out to $92 total which isn't unrealistic by any means.  So tonight for whatever reason I decided to remove the barrel and scrub it a little better with some 40-x bore cleaner so I could examine the marks some more.  What I found were circular lines I would call without a doubt "tooling" marks.  I emailed the customer service rep back with this pic not asking for anything for free but just seeing what he thought.  



Then I snooped around on the DW site to see what their warranty policy is.  That's when I found another tidbit of information I am not happy about.  Dan Wesson states that any gun baring the mark ʎ is sold from the factory as a Blem.  Well guess what my gun has on it.  My new to me Dan Wesson is a used blem.  

On their site they state;

"Firearms stamped with a “ʎ” symbol have been determined to be “Blems” (Blemished) and/or “Scratch and Dent” by Dan Wesson prior to sale or distribution, due to a cosmetic defect. These firearms are warranted to be free from mechanical defects ONLY for five (5) years. These firearms are not warranted to be free from cosmetic defects for any period of time." 


Now what I'm wondering is this barrel considered a cosmetic defect?  Do you think I should pursue this further?  

[bigbrowndog]

I’d say send the barrel back alone and see what they say, be prepared for sorry can’t help you, but you never know. Also I’d shoot it, because it might shoot as is.

Trapr

[bradshaw]

*****

My experience is limited to original Dan Wessons. I’ve seen a few problem barrels, but never one so pathetic. The best barrels used by Dan Wesson Arms shoot with any revolver barrel ever made. I find it odd that the abrasion rings not only cut the lands, but the grooves as well. In fact, your barrel doesn’t look like DWA barrels. When DWA commenced manufacture of stainless revolvers, use of chromoly barrels continued. Some of the carbon barrels were blued, others for the same model nickel plated (not bore).

I would expect the barrel shown to foul like fury and shoot poorly.
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

One possible explanation for the sewer pipe tool marks in the bore: the barrel may have been rifled by hammer forging. Since hammer forging shrinks the bore hole to match the carbide mandrel which imparts the rifling, one mat be tempted to think the powerful hydraulic hammers will iron out imperfections in the bored hole.... Yet, the better the job of making a precise hole, the better the finished bore & groove. The hammer forging machine should not be expected to perfectly iron and crummy hole.

As SAKO proved beyond doubt more than a half century ago, barrels of extreme stability and long range accuracy may be made by HAMMER FORGING. But SAKO didn’t arrive at such performance by taking shortcuts. The blank starts as superior hardware, very precisely drilled & reamed.... and, so I was told micro-honed, and lapped prior to chucking in the hammer forge. Finally, a barrel deemed in need of straightening was rejected. Whatever the case, SAKO put match accuracy in hunting rifles; as far as I’m concerned, a game changer. It didn’t hurt to hang these barrels on the rigid SAKO receiver, with the hell-for-rugged all-machined box trigger (also used on some Mausers).

However a barrel is rifled, the hole must be correct before grooves are cut or swaged or hammered. Dan Wesson Arms made a mistake on its first M44 .44 Mag barrels, by rolling threads on the muzzle (for muzzle nut). The roller compressed the bore. Despite compression right at the muzzle, accuracy was destroyed. I think DWA recognized the problem, or maybe chose to use me for a guinea pig, because I was sent an 8-inch barrel with rolled muzzle threads and a 6-inch barrel with cut threads. I discerned the difference on a practice silhouette range, reporting my critique to the Monson, Massachusetts schoolhouse factory. DWA immediately abandoned the faster rolled-thread approach. (At that time I also advised DWA to drop the muzzle porting as a redundant, messy gimmick; the M44 handles .44 Mag recoil with a yawn.)

There is nothing cosmetic about a terrible bore; for the good of the manufacturer, it should not be released.
David Bradshaw

[Ken O'Neill]

That cannot be characterized as a cosmetic flaw. Request replacement.

[oddshooter]

I noticed when DW first started up again with the 715 that everyone I saw for the first year was marked Blem.
After careful inspection, I rarely could find the blem.

I thought it was some kind of mark down for marketing scheme. Didn't make sense.

[needsmostuff]

Send them the barrel !!
They ought to swap it out of pure EMBARASSMENT !
I suggest they hang it on the "Wall Of Shame " in the quality control dept.
Point out Palmer guns always had the reputation for the lowest quality guns ,,,,,,,, but they NEVER did that.

[leeenfield]

Unless CZ has made significant changes, your 715 and 15 barrels and shrouds should be compatible.

I've swapped my 715/15 barrels and shrouds between several guns regularily.

Having said that, all of my experience is with DWA equipment.

[Encore64]

I try to remain positive on other folks finds. But, I'd have a hard time putting that one in my safe.

[bradshaw]

Ironic, we live in an era of the best barrel making of all time. Which is to say, RIFLE BARRELS. For all the alchemy some barrel makers may apply, one open secret is known by all: by whatever method the rifling is formed, the worst offense may be to tool it too fast. However this particular Model 715 barrel was made, it should not have made it through assembly. Such things happen.

Included among the best production revolver barrels ever made, Smith & Wesson, Colt (Python), and Dan Wesson Arms (M15, M44, M40). Of these, S&W enjoyed the longest tenure. Not sure how the DWA barrels were rifled. S&W and Colt Python were broached. S&W micro-honed some its barrel prior to broaching. The cream Pythons featured avery slightly tapered bore, with broached grooves of uniform diameter. George Wilson made some supremely accurate barrels for the Super Blackhawk, broach rifled, along with some very fine barrels for the .357 Maximum, button rifled.

The DWA M15 won a rather huge collection of trophies in IHMSA silhouette. Philip Braud shot the second Revolver 40x40 with his Model 15. To this day, Philip and brother Charlie Braud still herald the DWA M15 with cast bullets. Model 15’s of my acquaintance have great barrels, and the 1:18-3/4” twist handles the excellent Speer .358 180 Flat Point with podium accuracy out to 200 meters.
Let us hope for a good ending to this story,
David Bradshaw

[matt56]

In the box behind the slot for the paperwork I found a single printed out sheet that identifies why this revolver is a blemish. Apparently the sideplate fit at the front seam was not up to par. It mentions no other defects on the gun.

I'll see what the CS rep I am dealing with says tomorrow and go from there.

[matt56]

Haven't heard a thing from customer service. I'm going to try a different route

[matt56]

Well I never got any emails back from Dan Wesson. They sure were quick to take my money but when I brought up any mention of a warranty claim....crickets. I do believe they were having website issues last week so maybe they never got any of my inquires, who knows.

I did get my new barrel in the mail though. Interesting is the new barrel has 10 grooves and the original had 6. Maybe they switched up their barrel supplier.

I also think this damaged 6" barrel I have is salvageable. I could probably have EWK cut it down and rethread it to a shorter length. I bet I could get a 3 or 4 inch barrel made if I could find a shroud to match.

[bradshaw]

"I also think this damaged 6" barrel I have is salvageable. I could probably have EWK cut it down and rethread it to a shorter length. I bet I could get a 3 or 4 inch barrel made if I could find a shroud to match.”
----matt56

*****

Without seeing, I wouldn’t bet a shot nickel theta barrel warrants cut-down. My read of your photo tells me the damage was done when the bole was drilled and/or reamed, and that the damage extends throughout. If the hole is messed up, steps which follow will not correct cure the disease.

In the days of Dan Wesson Arms, the factory bent over backwards to correct flaws. Without their excellent service, there would have been far fewer DWA’s on the IHMSA firing line, and fewer repeat sales.

Scoring which the rifling process failed to remove hints to my eye that the grooves were formed on a hammer forge. Yet, neither button swage nor broach should be relied on to cure a bad hole. Tremendous displacement takes place as a hammer forge reduces diameter of a steel tube around the carbide mandrel, which some may think will cure a damaged hole. Resilts say otherwise. You want your Model 715 to shoot like an original Dan Wesson Arms M15, start with a good barrel.

If service doesn’t answer, call upstairs. Or, trusting thread match, look for an original M15 barrel. Silhouetters loved their DWA revolvers, which love cannot exist without ACCURACY.
David Bradshaw

[oddshooter]

I got a 10" barrel last year from new DW for my 715. It was reasonably priced, good looking, and Accurate to 100yards.

Couldn't have been happier.

So keep trucking, bud. Don't give up. DW has nice ones available.


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