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Post by todddoyka on Aug 10, 2019 15:19:19 GMT -5
i have a sporterized 98 mauser in 8x57 and next year i'm either going to rebore or rebarrel to the 400 whelen. (read web.archive.org/web/20101203...pace_myth.htm# to headspace it). i was going to do the 375 whelen but i already have a 9.3x57(.366"). and i can say that 4-something something! since 150 lbs whitetails will be its main course, i'll only go 1600-1800fps in 350-400gr fn gc. i hunt in close cover, so 60+ yards is a loooong shot, 25-35 yards is more likely. 1944 98 mauser 8x57mm i've been thinking of taking it to JES(i like that peep sight) but i might rebarrel it to 24"(it has a 22" barrel). i doubt that extra 2" is a make or break situation, but i like the 24" over the 22". the 98 mauser NEEDS a timney trigger and i'll go with richard's stock( Richards Microfit Gunstocks ), it will be a wolverine style and either a blue coral or black walnut stock. i doubt highly that i'll get the chance to hunt elk or moose, but my sons' might and i'll just happen to have a rifle that they can use....it sounds good, don't it!!!
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Post by bigbrowndog on Aug 10, 2019 16:47:20 GMT -5
Pick your gunsmith carefully, a 400 Whelen is a curious cartridge, in that it’s not based on a SAAMI spec 30-06. The 30-06 basic case is the correct shape to start with, shoulder diameter is larger than SAAMI 30-06. I’ve got correct chamber drawings and I believe Mart has a 400 Whelen.
Trapr
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Post by bigbrowndog on Aug 10, 2019 16:49:51 GMT -5
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Post by mart on Aug 11, 2019 15:09:47 GMT -5
I do indeed have a 400 Whelen. Mine is a left handed model 70 and has a Shilen barrel on it. It has the Petrov chamber, which according to Michael Petrov, was the original design as Whelen intended. I miss Mike. I used to go to his house for long discussions about all things Whelen.
You may want to consider a rebarrel. I don't know what your muzzle diameter on your rifle is but it will need .200 over groove diameter. In other words a .411 groove diameter will want a muzzle diameter of at least .611. I'd honestly go bigger. Mine has a number 4 Shilen and comes in at 8.5 pounds naked. It is a comfortable gun to shoot but any lighter and recoil could make it somewhat less fun.
I've played a little with some 320 and 400 grain cast bullets, but most of my load development has been with jacketed bullets. My favorite is the Woodleigh 400 grain RN. To date two caribou and one moose have fallen to my 400. All one shot kills. At the velocity your suggesting a relatively soft alloy ought to make deer stop what they're doing and lay down for an extended nap.
Keep us posted on the build. H4895 is your friend when it comes to powder and CH4D has excellent dies for it though you may have a bit of a wait. I've loaded a lot of 400 Whelen with a 41 mag sizing die and used a 458 Winchester bullet seating die. I have CH4D dies now but before they came I did all my initial load development with the 41mag/458 dies.
Mart
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Post by z1r on Aug 11, 2019 15:48:24 GMT -5
Yes, the .400 Whelen was based off of .30-06 cylindrical or (basic) brass. This gives a bigger shoulder than chambers cut for .30-06 cases necked up. Search out Petrov .400 Whelen. I believe Dave Kiff has the reamer drawings.
As for needing chamber walls .100" thick, that is more personal preference than a requirement.
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Post by mart on Aug 11, 2019 16:03:33 GMT -5
Yes, the .400 Whelen was based off of .30-06 cylindrical or (basic) brass. This gives a bigger shoulder than chambers cut for .30-06 cases necked up. Search out Petrov .400 Whelen. I believe Dave Kiff has the reamer drawings. As for needing chamber walls .100" thick, that is more personal preference than a requirement. The original 400 Whelen has a .458 diameter shoulder so it's not quite cylindrical but not far from it. The 30-06 case has a .441 shoulder. The 30-06 cylindrical is straight .470 all the way up.
I think you want more than .100 round the chamber walls. I was referring to muzzle diameter. JES told me the .200 number is what he likes to see for a minimum size over the groove diameter. Not mandatory but his rule of thumb.
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Post by z1r on Aug 11, 2019 16:13:57 GMT -5
I didn't say it was cylindrical, I said it was based off cylindrical brass. That's how you end up with the larger shoulder forming from cylindrical brass compared to necking up .30-06 cases with their .441" shoulder.
Yup, my bad typing skills, typed chamber when I meant muzzle. Again, personal preference, not required for safety reasons. JES likes .100" wall thickness because for reboring because it results in a more rigid setup.
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 12, 2019 14:44:33 GMT -5
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Post by mart on Aug 12, 2019 17:14:23 GMT -5
That’s the same as mine. You’ll enjoy it.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Aug 12, 2019 17:50:43 GMT -5
Like mart, I was able to converse with Mr. Petrov before his death although not in person as it seems mart did,........lucky guy. I’ve wanted a 400 Whelen since I was in high school, but the issues that were had with people not knowing what the true dimensions kept me from going thru with it. You know all these “eggspurts” spouting drivel and yet they didn’t KNOW what they didn’t KNOW. After researching off an on for several years, and looking at the Brown 400 Whelen, and some of the stuff JD Jones was doing with his improved 30-06 based singleshot rounds. I started looking into it some more, and came across Michael Petrov’s article, I hunted him down and emailed him and was very happy to hear WHY, the issues were occurring. It was very simple, but by that time I’d already owned several large caliber rounds that would do what the 400 would do, so why go thru the trouble of duplicating what I already had. That’s where I am today,.........I already own338-06, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 45-70, 50 Alaskan, and 348 win. But that damn 400 still sits in the corner of my brain waiting for its chance,......someday maybe, someday!!!!
Trapr
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 13, 2019 15:05:16 GMT -5
Keep us posted on the build. H4895 is your friend when it comes to powder and CH4D has excellent dies for it though you may have a bit of a wait. I've loaded a lot of 400 Whelen with a 41 mag sizing die and used a 458 Winchester bullet seating die. I have CH4D dies now but before they came I did all my initial load development with the 41mag/458 dies. Mart what ch4d dies do you use? they have 5 different dies(whelen, 24, 28, 30 & 40 improved). or do they have customized the 400 whelen dies?
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 13, 2019 15:42:45 GMT -5
Like mart, I was able to converse with Mr. Petrov before his death although not in person as it seems mart did,........lucky guy. I’ve wanted a 400 Whelen since I was in high school, but the issues that were had with people not knowing what the true dimensions kept me from going thru with it. You know all these “eggspurts” spouting drivel and yet they didn’t KNOW what they didn’t KNOW. After researching off an on for several years, and looking at the Brown 400 Whelen, and some of the stuff JD Jones was doing with his improved 30-06 based singleshot rounds. I started looking into it some more, and came across Michael Petrov’s article, I hunted him down and emailed him and was very happy to hear WHY, the issues were occurring. It was very simple, but by that time I’d already owned several large caliber rounds that would do what the 400 would do, so why go thru the trouble of duplicating what I already had. That’s where I am today,.........I already own338-06, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 45-70, 50 Alaskan, and 348 win. But that damn 400 still sits in the corner of my brain waiting for its chance,......someday maybe, someday!!!! Trapr i was going to take to 375 whelen but as i was discussing it on another site, someone said the 400 whelen. hmmmmm.......the 400 whelen, i was going to do that a few years ago, but "eggspurts"(i love that!!!) told me NOT to do it. so i reached the 400 whelen and i found the "original" 400 whelen( aka Mr. Petrov). i am still researching it. next year i hope to build it. i have the 35/30, 9.3x57, 444 marlin, 45-70 and the 500 linebaugh(tc encore/23" MGM barrel) and i'm wonder why too!!!!
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Post by mart on Aug 13, 2019 20:09:50 GMT -5
Keep us posted on the build. H4895 is your friend when it comes to powder and CH4D has excellent dies for it though you may have a bit of a wait. I've loaded a lot of 400 Whelen with a 41 mag sizing die and used a 458 Winchester bullet seating die. I have CH4D dies now but before they came I did all my initial load development with the 41mag/458 dies. Mart what ch4d dies do you use? they have 5 different dies(whelen, 24, 28, 30 & 40 improved). or do they have customized the 400 whelen dies? I honestly don't know which shoulder angle mine is but it is not 40. I can't check the dies as they are packed for our move and I'm at work in the oilfields for another 10 days. I sent three fired cases to CH4D for them to measure. The reamer used to chamber my rifle is from that drawing.
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Post by frankenfab on Aug 18, 2019 10:29:08 GMT -5
If you do the Trig based on the drawing you posted, it comes to 40.365 degrees.
Side a .017", side b .020"
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Post by todddoyka on Aug 18, 2019 15:07:10 GMT -5
i'm not a math wizard, with your sines, cosines and tangents, doncha know!!! i just want shoot it!!!!!
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