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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 25, 2019 18:39:15 GMT -5
There are some pics of it on here under topic name, Bear Spray 500L
Trapr
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Ramar
.30 Stingray
Posts: 399
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Post by Ramar on Sept 25, 2019 19:03:03 GMT -5
Thank Trapr. Checked it out. That link: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/21263/bear-spray-500-linebaughBears repeating, especially for those who haven't seen this one. I like how you described your goal: "Functional is what I was goin* for,......I tend to lean heavily on being pragmatic,. I like a good functional tool when there’s work to be done..."
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 3, 2019 7:45:23 GMT -5
i know a proper crimp is necessary for good combustion and consistency with loads. I fired a few new loads the other day and the load should have given me a significant increase over my current load. The crimp was a stout crimp, and one I’ve used on my other loads but the increase in velocity was only 40fps, and the powder charge was a 3 grain increase. The current load is 33gr. with a 430gr bullet and velocity is 1170fps, the 36gr load is going 1210fps. Load data shows it should be doing 1350-1360fps, I’m wondering if a stouter crimp would help??? One of the issues in dealing with this bullet is that it is a jacketed one and pressing the crimp harder tends to simply flatten it against the bullet sides, it appears to actually deform the bullet sides a bit, so I am curious if some of you guys using jacketed bullets for the heavy recoilers are having similar issues. Mine is a 500Max, and I’m using both Woodleigh and Hawk bullets, 430gr and 450gr. Trapr ***** trapr.... without getting into the “why” of a .500 Maximum in a revolver, especially with short barrel, I have never used crimp to increase velocity. Asphaltic adhesiveFederal 44A .44 Mag 240 JHP the most accurate revolver ammunition I ever shot. Federal 44C, a load utilizing the Sierra .44 220 Full Profile Jacket, which I worked on with Federal, is damn close. Both rounds secure bullet to case with asphaltic adhesive. No other commercial load has come close to these rounds for accuracy @ 200 meters and these hang with the best IHMSA handholds. I don’t know how many offerings in the Federal Cartridge Corporation catalog used asphaltic adhesive. (The Federal 240 JHP looks just like the top championship Sierra .44 240 Jacketed Hollow Cavity, both of which set silhouette records.) While a crimp without neck tension is like a gate without a fence, it helps keep the cow home. A big, heavy bullet which is meant to be crimped warrants a serious crimp groove or cannelure. Bullets such as military .223 ball often break in two at the cannelure. To roll a cannelure risks affecting accuracy of long range rifle bullets, a consideration outside the revolver bullet. There may be an adhesive----asphaltic or otherwise----which would work for jacketed. When first exposed to Federal 44A, my fear was that the round would foul the bore and degrade accuracy. Didn’t happen. The rounds produce no more and often less fouling than similar ammunition without adhesive. It is my impression Federal's adhesive compliments uniform combustion. PrimerRifle primers have more compound than pistol primers. Beside withstanding higher pressure, the larger flame promotes uniform ignition of large charges of slow powder. PowderTo increase powder charge may reach a point of diminishing velocity. Pressure may continue to rise while velocity plateaus. A sign to back off and explore ACCURACY and EXTREME SPREAD. Extreme Spread may tighten and then open as powder charge increases. I look for a conjugation of best accuracy & lowest extreme spread. Note: extreme spread by itself does not make accuracy. For a graphic example, the handloader may achieve very low ES with an out-of-balance bullet, without ever seeing accuracy. David Bradshaw
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Post by bigbrowndog on Oct 3, 2019 11:47:36 GMT -5
As always David your insight is thoroughly appreciated. I recall reading an article many years ago that mentioned the use of adhesive, I cannot recall if it was for sealant and weatherproofing or actual bullet retention. I know that Lake City uses or used a sealant/adhesive on its 7.62x51 back in the 80’s, my time on the USAF firing line and instructing Security Forces on machine gun tactics and deployment had much down time and dissecting the various rounds we used helped with the boredom.
I wasn’t trying to imply that more crimp would be used to purposely increase velocity, only that securing the bullet from creeping would assist in achieving the proper velocity for the powder charge. The use of an inert adhesive for “our” purposes is very thought provoking!!! Currently I’m pleased with the substantial increase in cannelure depth and grip provided by the Swift A Frame and Woodleigh bullets, as well as the increase in velocity to a more expected level for the powder charge. Accuracy for the loads has proven more than adequate for my purposes and even though I may never truly need the power of a 450gr. bullet at 1200-1250fps, knowing that the gun and load will perform at their intended level is satisfying. Ironically, I was not wanting or looking for this much power in a handgun when I found the revolver. My original desire was a 500L, but price for this Gallagher 500Max was too good to pass up, and I knew I could always load to 500L level or lower.
As luck would have it, I’ve acquired another 357max, and asked Lee about his thoughts of a 460 SuperMag, by way of shortening 460 SW brass to 1.6”, and what performance issues or gains might be possible. My thoughts being a 9” or so barreled general purpose big game revolver, in much the same fashion that others have done with the 414SM and Hunter configuration barrels.
Trapr
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Nov 7, 2019 13:40:53 GMT -5
Groo here I use the crimp to "help" hold the bullet in the case [ push and pull] and to take the bell out. The one thing that MUST happen is the hold on the bullet be constant, and to hold the bullet in the case to get a good burn going. The former helps in constant speeds , the later , reducing of squibs, hangfire, or the " K-Boom" The "glue" on a factory round would do both and keep out water,oil etc[like a mill spec round.]
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