|
Post by wheelguns on Jun 14, 2019 15:04:54 GMT -5
On the store bought hollow base wadcutters, there is a powdery substance on the outside. It is a white powder. I am not sure if it is mica. You might want to try 45/45/10 which is 45% liquid alox, 45% johnsons paste wax, and 10% mineral spirits. This is an excellent tumble lube, and is much easier to work with than straight alox.
I actually have shot plated hollow base wadcutters before. Berry’s bullets used to sell them for .38 special loads. They shot good but not as good as the swaged soft lead ones.
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 14, 2019 15:09:35 GMT -5
ok great, for once i might be moving in the right direction. just tumble lubed a handful of wadcutters with the mixture above. ill see how those go thanks for your reply
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 14, 2019 16:34:41 GMT -5
yes, i know, not the smartest guy on this forum but i started out with the simple idea of making a swaged wadcutter out of lead. i've got that down and now experiencing the leading that you guys would expect (and i should have if i was more experienced). so, in the process of trying to figure out what i can do with the firearm, with the bullet i have landed on the idea of 1) finding a suitable lube that i can apply (gonna try alox mix wit wax to start with), holding the option of powder coating at arms length length for the time being (no real reason other than trying to limit the number of variables). 2) making a jacketed half or full wadcutter that seems to me, with my admittedly limited knowledge, would help with the leading (i gotta try it to know for sure) - i was asking if anyone who is reading this had any experience with these and leading. in any case, i appreciate all the info you guys have given me and take the advice as an opportunity to learn more about this entire process (which i thoroughly enjoy doing) thank you all ps what is meant by "dry powdery lube"? ***** svo44.... the fact that you are swaging bullets screams “PLAIN LEAD.” (Have called straight lead “pure lead” all my life. Not interested in the semantics, just an understanding of plain old soft lead.) Plain lead devoid of lubricant or coating rubs off on paper; I have written letters and signed checks with lead bullets. Once you alloy, the writing quality goes down, eventually looking more like invisible ink. Slow, we begin to learn details from your loading bench. My hand-swaged bullets were made on a C-H Swag-O-Matic press with C-H swaging dies. The bullet begins as a pure lead core inserted into a copper half-jacket. There is no provision for a lubrication groove or crimp groove on the finished bulllet. I would separately DEEP SEAT .030 to .060-inch above the “wheelbase.” I drove .44s to 1050 fpsMy .357s could be driven faster without leading. My .44 bullets to 1060 fps with no leading. Leading became a certainty @ 1,100 fps or slightly faster. These bullets killed on with a aplomb on lung shots. Relatively quiet and a Model 29 lasts nearly forever. Smoking’ Joe Frazier was throwing hands in those days. His left hook and one of his punches to the ribs became a metaphor for the swaged .44 240 SWC Half-Jacket. Just to see what would happen, I inserted a lead core on the press----without half-jacket. Tight as the C-H swaging dies are, lead extruded around the piston. Cleaning that up cured me of trying again. Somehow, you’ve got these swaged bullets, sans grease groove, sans gas check, sans half-jacket. It’s time to POWDER COAT. David Bradshaw
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 14, 2019 17:26:13 GMT -5
thank you, i swage these on a corbin press and die- the core is swaged with a 'base guard' (the corbin version of a gas check- it is the final diameter of the bullet, in this case 0.429). i foolishly thought the pure lead, plain lead, soft lead bullet would be an issue but not the issue it has become so i am on the road to fixing this. when you swaged the jacketed bullets on the CH were they wadcutters or did they have a nose of some sort? in your opinion is the only 'lube' worth considering the powder coat?
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 14, 2019 18:21:02 GMT -5
my mistake- swage these to a diameter of 0.452 (thinking 44) -sorry
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 14, 2019 19:36:27 GMT -5
thank you, i swage these on a corbin press and die- the core is swaged with a 'base guard' (the corbin version of a gas check- it is the final diameter of the bullet, in this case 0.429). i foolishly thought the pure lead, plain lead, soft lead bullet would be an issue but not the issue it has become so i am on the road to fixing this. when you swaged the jacketed bullets on the CH were they wadcutters or did they have a nose of some sort? in your opinion is the only 'lube' worth considering the powder coat? ***** Speer and Hornady swaged plain lead as a lower cost alternative to their jacketed bullets decades ago. Each used its own dry lube, although the Hornady felt of a wax component. Both makers advised velocity be kept around 900 to 1,000 fps max. In my limited shooting, velocities in excess of 800 fps were apt to lead, and accuracy take a dive. I swaged two bullets in the C-H Swag-O-Matic: .357 SWC HP and .44 SWC. The vast majority of my shooting was with the .357 at 158-160 grains, and the .44 at 240 grains. Accuracy of these swaged half-jacket SWC was nothing less than phenomenal, especially the .44 in an early 1960’s M-29. My standard .44 load: swaged 240 SWC Half-Jacket, DEEP SEATED over 17/Hercules 2400 in Remington, Winchester, or Norma .44 Mag brass, ignited by CCI 350 LP Mag primer. “.... is the only ‘lube’ worth considering the powder coat?” Answer: NO. In an attempt to hike velocity----withoutleading----I lubed swaged half-jackets with molydisulfide powder, graphite, and a mix of moly & graphite. My attempts gleaned little gain in velocity, before leading, with slight decline in accuracy. Note: this was before Dr. Kenneth Oehler flipped the chronograph world on its head with his Oehler Model 33. The Model 33 caused Avtron to close its doors. To chronograph with the Avtron, you shoot through 2 sheets of acetate with a printed silver grid. The bullet chops through the START sheet, then pieces the STOP sheet. You got through a monkey drill to get a number. Key the number(s) to a table for velocity. That was ONE SHOT. One shot that killed two sheets of acetate with real silver printed on them. Forget trying to measure velocity & accuracy from the same rounds. You seem to want to lube, so keep trying. I just know that powder coat works.... and that any sort of grease on a groove-less bullet is liable to come off before the bullet is in the barrel, or to not have enough left to matter. As this is your experiment, carry on and report back. David Bradshaw
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 14, 2019 20:02:13 GMT -5
Thank you very much for that! i appreciate your input on all of this- i predict you are correct in saying use the powder coat but i need to get there knowing i've tried some other things along the way. my goal in all of this is to shoot lower velocity target loads vs high so i am a little (less and less so) hopeful that i might get the results i am looking for with the lube. i will report back and again, i appreciate everyone's help with this.
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 14, 2019 20:21:28 GMT -5
can i ask what your powder coating method is and what is the downside to powder coating?
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 14, 2019 20:40:41 GMT -5
can i ask what your powder coating method is and what is the downside to powder coating? ***** Powder coating is thoroughly covered in numerous threads on Singleactions, featuring detailed procedure by sixshot, hoover, Lee Martin, and others. Not sure how to look it up. The Castboolits forum also a source. David Bradshaw
|
|
svo44
.240 Incinerator
on a journey
Posts: 89
|
Post by svo44 on Jun 21, 2019 7:08:29 GMT -5
hate it when i am wrong (you'd think id be used to this) but.. got some clear powder coat and boy is it simple to do. off to the range today and hopefully the leading will be a thing of the past or at least something easily dealt with. thanks for the push in this direction
|
|