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Post by dave19113 on May 25, 2019 19:33:25 GMT -5
Was able to get out to the range to do some load data testing with the LabRadar.
All shooting was done at 25 yards for initial tests. Dry 78 degree day . Shooting was done rested supported
Test guns were:
44 Magnum
Ruger SBH Frankestein 6 3/4 barrel cut from 9 1/2 inch - Leupold 2x
475 Linebaugh
BFR 7 1/2 w/ Microdot
45 Colt
Ruger SBH conversion 5.5 inch - iron sights stock
45 Colt
250 Gr Missouri Pinbuster .452
13 gr HS6 - 1153 fps 5 shot tight cluster******
13.5 HS6 - 1195 fps group opened
13.8 gr HS6 - 1213 FPS group fell apart
255 Keith Missouri Coated
13 HS6 1134 FPS slight verticals string
13.5 HS6 1185 FPS very tight cluster ******
13.8 HS6 1207 FPS open group
44 Magnum
300 gr Missouri hammer .430
12.3 HS6 1134 FPS vertical string
12.8 HS6 1171 FPS large group 3"
13 HS6 1181 FPS - showed promise need to retest
300 gr Missouri Pinbuster .430
12.3 1222 FPS - excellent group tight cluster ******
12.8 1255 FPS - moderate group - but sticky extraction
13 HS6 - 1279 FPS - hard extraction flattered primers
420 gr WNLFP GC .476
14.5 HS6 - 1181 fps Need rest at distance ragged hole - and also to retest against standard load of 14 gr
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Post by bradshaw on May 25, 2019 21:46:24 GMT -5
Was able to get out to the range to do some load data testing with the LabRadar. All shooting was done at 25 yards for initial tests. Dry 78 degree day . Shooting was done rested supported Test guns were: 44 Magnum Ruger SBH Frankestein 6 3/4 barrel cut from 9 1/2 inch - Leupold 2x 475 Linebaugh BFR 7 1/2 w/ Microdot 45 Colt Ruger SBH conversion 5.5 inch - iron sights stock 45 Colt 250 Gr Missouri Pinbuster .452 13 gr HS6 - 1153 fps 5 shot tight cluster****** 13.5 HS6 - 1195 fps group opened 13.8 gr HS6 - 1213 FPS group fell apart 255 Keith Missouri Coated
13 HS6 1134 FPS slight verticals string
13.5 HS6 1185 FPS very tight cluster ******
13.8 HS6 1207 FPS open group
44 Magnum 300 gr Missouri hammer .430 12.3 HS6 1134 FPS vertical string 12.8 HS6 1171 FPS large group 3" 13 HS6 1181 FPS - showed promise need to retest 300 gr Missouri Pinbuster .430 12.3 1222 FPS - excellent group tight cluster ****** 12.8 1255 FPS - moderate group - but sticky extraction 13 HS6 - 1279 FPS - hard extraction flattered primers 420 gr WNLFP GC .476 14.5 HS6 - 1181 fps Need rest at distance ragged hole - and also to retest against standard load of 14 gr ***** Hodgdon HS-6 is a great medium ball propellant, producing fine accuracy with variety of bullets in the big bore sixgun cartridges. However, HS-6 is not a powder for Rocks & Dynamite, a chore which must yield to slow powders. All good powders have an RPM range for happiness. There is no such thing as a medium powder that can play Full House against a better slow powder. The problem: as you jack bullet weight over a medium powder (fast powder is worse), you reach a point where the powder sees no way out, a fat guy blocks the door, so it kicks down a wall. Let’s look at two charges of HS-6 under the Missouri Keith 255 SWC Powder Coat. 25 yards, without details, I assume 5-shot groups: 1) 13/HS-6 “1134 fps vertical string.”
2) 13.5/HS-6 "1186 FPS very tight cluster ******”
3) 13.8/HS-6 1207 FPS open group”
First off, your observations need verification. Verification comes with shooting more of the same, and achieving the SAME RESULTS. I suspect your results may not REPEAT. From vertical stringing (excess velocity spread), to “very tight,” to “open group” in 0.8-grain tells me something ain’t right. I use just one example of the need to respect the pressure bonnet of a powder, and not ask it to do what it cannot. David Bradshaw |
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Post by dave19113 on May 26, 2019 7:55:02 GMT -5
Was able to get out to the range to do some load data testing with the LabRadar. All shooting was done at 25 yards for initial tests. Dry 78 degree day . Shooting was done rested supported Test guns were: 44 Magnum Ruger SBH Frankestein 6 3/4 barrel cut from 9 1/2 inch - Leupold 2x 475 Linebaugh BFR 7 1/2 w/ Microdot 45 Colt Ruger SBH conversion 5.5 inch - iron sights stock 45 Colt 250 Gr Missouri Pinbuster .452 13 gr HS6 - 1153 fps 5 shot tight cluster****** 13.5 HS6 - 1195 fps group opened 13.8 gr HS6 - 1213 FPS group fell apart 255 Keith Missouri Coated
13 HS6 1134 FPS slight verticals string
13.5 HS6 1185 FPS very tight cluster ******
13.8 HS6 1207 FPS open group
44 Magnum 300 gr Missouri hammer .430 12.3 HS6 1134 FPS vertical string 12.8 HS6 1171 FPS large group 3" 13 HS6 1181 FPS - showed promise need to retest 300 gr Missouri Pinbuster .430 12.3 1222 FPS - excellent group tight cluster ****** 12.8 1255 FPS - moderate group - but sticky extraction 13 HS6 - 1279 FPS - hard extraction flattered primers 420 gr WNLFP GC .476 14.5 HS6 - 1181 fps Need rest at distance ragged hole - and also to retest against standard load of 14 gr ***** Hodgdon HS-6 is a great medium ball propellant, producing fine accuracy with variety of bullets in the big bore sixgun cartridges. However, HS-6 is not a powder for Rocks & Dynamite, a chore which must yield to slow powders. All good powders have an RPM range for happiness. There is no such thing as a medium powder that can play Full House against a better slow powder. The problem;em as you jack bullet weight over a medium powder (fast powder is worse), you reach a point where the powder sees no way out, a fat guy blocks the door, so it kicks down a wall. Let’s look at two charges of HS-6 under the Missouri Keith 255 SWC Powder Coat. 25 yards, without details, I assume 5-shot groups: 1) 13/HS-6 “1134 fps vertical string.”
2) 13.5/HS-6 "1186 FPS very tight cluster ******”
3) 13.8/HS-6 1207 FPS open group”
First off, your observations need verification. Verification comes with shooting more of the same, and achieving the SAME RESULTS. I suspect your results may not REPEAT. From vertical stringing (excess velocity spread), to “very tight,” to “open group” in 0.8-grain tells me something ain’t right. I use just one example of the need to respect the pressure bonnet of a powder, and not ask it to do what it cannot. David Bradshaw Yes, these are just initial loads. I do plan on doing a-lot of follow up tests. I just thought to try the powder because I have a bunch of it on hand. I wasnt trying to push the velocity limit. Just trying to find to see if the powder will work up a consistent moderate load
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Post by oddshooter on May 26, 2019 9:50:35 GMT -5
I couldn't find a 255 bullet with hs-6 in hodgdon reloading. The max on 240 and 270 were over 15g and over 14g so your 13.? seems like a safe medium load. Velocities seem reasonable.
I like how you are using the .3g increments to hunt for that tight cluster (group). I do the same thing, but usually have 5 recipes in a flock, not 3. I love it when the first and last recipe is large with one of the center 3 being the tightest group. I was wondering what you thought a tight cluster was until you stated 3" as a large group. Me too.
At 25 yards rested, I think a tight group is under an inch. Medium group is 1"-2" and a large group is 3" and up. I just believe that the 3" will open at 100 yards to 12"; which aint good enuf.
I use a lot of hs-6 myself and have always had good luck with it. It's clean, accurate, and isn't spiky; what's not to like for medium speed (I define as 1200fps in 44mag)
Prescut
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Post by 45MAN on May 26, 2019 13:58:18 GMT -5
WHAT PRIMERS DO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND FOR USE WITH HS-6, MAG, NON-MAG,OR WHAT AND WHY?
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Post by bradshaw on May 26, 2019 20:56:20 GMT -5
WHAT PRIMERS DO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND FOR USE WITH HS-6, MAG, NON-MAG,OR WHAT AND WHY? ***** STANDARD pistol primer, large or small as case requires.No need for more flame. I conducted a few comparisons using mag primers to ignite Win 231 (fast powder) and HS-6 (medium powder), and found slightly more erratic ES (extreme spread), with very slightly higher average velocity for 5-shots. 5-shotgroups in .44 Mag case at 50 and 100 opened as much as a third. Pressure doesn’t matter----until you put your foot in the carburetor. I think Bill Ruger liked his 1956 Ferrari because it was a little 12-cylinder tank built in the shape of a sports car. Which is not to say you can’t blow it. Between a strong primer and a weak primer I will take a strong primer. My attitude in this matter was clarified with high explosives. An entirely other category of performance, with some rather universal lessons. John Linebaugh has a certain disdain for mag primers, gained while loading mortar rounds in a revolver. Linebaugh and I agree we have an overdue meeting, to include subjects experiential. It is always best to work with a target. And to shoot like you mean business. It is better to leave EGO at the gate and shoot with an open mind.... knowledge will enter. David Bradshaw |
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Post by taffin on May 26, 2019 22:46:47 GMT -5
It is always best to work with a target. And to shoot like you mean business. It is better to leave EGO at the gate and shoot with an open mind.... knowledge will enter.
David Bradshaw[/quote]
ANY SHOOTING SESSION WHICH DOESN'T TEACH US SOMETHING IS A WASTE OF TIME.
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Post by seminolewind on May 26, 2019 23:19:11 GMT -5
Sage advice being offered here my friends. Where else can you get instant input from handgunning elete like Mr. Taffin and Mr. Bradshaw? This is a great forum. Thank you.
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Post by dave19113 on May 27, 2019 5:24:24 GMT -5
I couldn't find a 255 bullet with hs-6 in hodgdon reloading. The max on 240 and 270 were over 15g and over 14g so your 13.? seems like a safe medium load. Velocities seem reasonable. I like how you are using the .3g increments to hunt for that tight cluster (group). I do the same thing, but usually have 5 recipes in a flock, not 3. I love it when the first and last recipe is large with one of the center 3 being the tightest group. I was wondering what you thought a tight cluster was until you stated 3" as a large group. Me too. At 25 yards rested, I think a tight group is under an inch. Medium group is 1"-2" and a large group is 3" and up. I just believe that the 3" will open at 100 yards to 12"; which aint good enuf. I use a lot of hs-6 myself and have always had good luck with it. It's clean, accurate, and isn't spiky; what's not to like for medium speed (I define as 1200fps in 44mag) Prescut
Yes, your grouping comparison is pretty much spot on to mine.
Hopefully in a week or so I should be able to get out to do some more testings and narrow down the bullet/powder charge combos. |
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Post by 45MAN on May 27, 2019 10:23:24 GMT -5
DAVID: MANY THANKS FOR THE INFO ON BETTER TO USE STANDARD PRIMERS WITH HS-6, NOT ONLY A RECOMMENDATION, BUT THE BASIS FOR SAME.
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Post by nvcaller on Jun 22, 2019 0:37:02 GMT -5
My opinion is based off the posts I made in 2016 in 45 Colt 7 1/2 Ruger black Hawks. I did load testing of primers and loads with hs6 . It is my favorite accuracy powder , it devolped speed slow and consistently. Primers both mag and standard only made 10 to 20 fps change if that and didn't effect accuracy. Each gun IMHO has a different finger print and likes or dislikes combinations of bullet and powder. Some guns shoot great to acceptable with a lot of combinations and or have a sweet spot for a velocity call it a harmonics if you choose. But primer choice is not a huge issue with hs6,296 h110 I would say yes.
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Post by nvcaller on Jun 29, 2019 20:28:10 GMT -5
Standard primers shot today at 4000 ft 80 degrees hs6 Ruger 7 1/2 10.5 998 fps 5 1/2 958 260gr 454 Matt's Keith bullet. For your records.w296 22 gr 1258 23gr 1354 10shot averaging. Out of 7 1/2 ssrblk hawk same bullet.
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