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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 7, 2019 9:56:24 GMT -5
Argument with a friend on this. From what I know, it was Elmer Keith in conjunction with S&W. Wikipedia also mentions a Phillip B. Sharp as well, but my buddy says it was another guy who was an armoror.
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Post by azshaun on Mar 7, 2019 11:30:30 GMT -5
From Paco Kelly:
“Doug Wesson gave Phil Sharpe the credit for the lions share of the .357's development. Elmer Keith has stated that he also contributed to it's development and he did, in a limited way. He sent Wesson a large number of his cast bullets that he designed. (Lyman still makes the mold) And he sent the loading data he was using in .38 Special cases in the .38/44 revolvers. He states in his book SIXGUNS that the load was 11 gr. of Number 80 powder. (now long obsolete) Keith also points out that this load wrecked many small-framed .38 Specials. As Elmer himself tells it, Winchester told Wesson that the load data of Keith's generated over 40,000 psi which they thought was crazy. Eventually Winchester backed away from the project. But...Remington picked up where they left off. And when 2400 powder was finally developed it was used in the .357. Approximately 15.8 gr. of it. I have read a number of different experts who state that it was 15 gr., but the point amount fluctuates from .2 to .8 grains, depending on who you read. I get 15.8 gr. from a WRA .357 magnum cartridge I opened and weighed. It was a factory load from the late 1930's. They velocity of those WRA cartridges were well over 1500 fps.....knocking out speculation that the original loadings in .357 did not get as high velocity as the advertising stated. The advertising stated 1510 fps and the original loads were above that.”
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Mar 7, 2019 11:40:36 GMT -5
As Paco says, it is pretty much universally agreed that Phil Sharpe deserves most of the credit. This was an irritant to Elmer Keith, who did a lot of heavy 38-44 work, but there is no doubt that S&W relied on Sharpe. S&W, of course, did the work on the handgun, lengthening the cylinder, proper heat treating, etc.
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Post by Encore64 on Mar 7, 2019 11:45:17 GMT -5
Elmer Keith was pretty much like a lot of folks we have today and thought he was the center of the Universe.
Everything that's introduced today receives accusations that the idea was stolen from them.
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Post by taffin on Mar 7, 2019 12:50:19 GMT -5
Argument with a friend on this. From what I know, it was Elmer Keith in conjunction with S&W. Wikipedia also mentions a Phillip B. Sharp as well, but my buddy says it was another guy who was an armoror. PHIL SHARPE AND DOUG WESSON WORKED TOGETHER ON IT. SHARPE HAD CASES MADE AND DESIGNED THE BULLET.
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 7, 2019 13:16:13 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the info. Sounds like Elmer wanted more credit than he deserved.
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Post by taffin on Mar 7, 2019 15:47:36 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the info. Sounds like Elmer wanted more credit than he deserved. THE FIRST OF A THREE PART PIECE ON THE .357 MAGNUM IS IN THE LATEST (APRIL) ISSUE OF GUNS. IT TELLS THE REAL STORY.
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Post by bushog on Mar 7, 2019 17:09:16 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the info. Sounds like Elmer wanted more credit than he deserved. THE FIRST OF A THREE PART PIECE ON THE .357 MAGNUM IS IN THE LATEST (APRIL) ISSUE OF GUNS. IT TELLS THE REAL STORY. PERFECT!!!
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Post by mike454 on Mar 7, 2019 17:31:06 GMT -5
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Post by sixshot on Mar 8, 2019 0:01:24 GMT -5
Pretty well known fact that Phil Sharpe was the true designer of the 357 magnum, Elmer never did care for Phil but that doesn't change the facts. Read John Taffin's excellent write up for a starter.
Dick
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Post by 45MAN on Mar 8, 2019 0:57:01 GMT -5
KEN: ARE YOU SURE S&W LENGTHENED THE N FRAME 38/44 CYLINDERS FOR THE 357 MAG? I WISH THEY HAD BUT I DON'T THINK THEY DID.
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Post by bradshaw on Mar 8, 2019 8:58:29 GMT -5
***** mike454 provides a link to an excellent piece, beautifully illustrated, by John Taffin. As with the .22 Long Rifle, importance of the .357 Magnum in the development of sharpshooting with a revolver is, for my generation, beyond measure. David Bradshaw
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Post by rjm52 on Mar 8, 2019 9:47:38 GMT -5
...have to agree with 45MAN...Smith "should" have lengthened the cylinder but didn't. That is why Keith bullets can't be seated to be crimped in the crimping groove. It wasn't until the Combat Magnum came out in the mid 1950s that the cylinder was lengthened on Smith K-frame guns...
Bob
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Mar 10, 2019 14:35:28 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the info. Sounds like Elmer wanted more credit than he deserved. THE FIRST OF A THREE PART PIECE ON THE .357 MAGNUM IS IN THE LATEST (APRIL) ISSUE OF GUNS. IT TELLS THE REAL STORY. Excellent article, thanks for sharing the info.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Mar 11, 2019 7:27:55 GMT -5
KEN: ARE YOU SURE S&W LENGTHENED THE N FRAME 38/44 CYLINDERS FOR THE 357 MAG? I WISH THEY HAD BUT I DON'T THINK THEY DID. Rey, I didn't have a 27 here to measure when I wrote that, so I accept the fact that I may very well have been wrong.Sorry.
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