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Post by AxeHandle on Feb 12, 2019 20:03:05 GMT -5
Had 30 Herrett barrel and die set w/trim die in hand for a l-o-n-g time. Holding a 357 Herrett barrel only the same time period. Recently snagged a 357 die set w/trim tie to go with the barrel. Thinking I may make some soon. Hearing nightmare tales of needed inside neck reaming for the 30. Don't know why but I had figured it would be a simple as loading for the 300 GNR... Tell me all you know on the subject..
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Post by zeus on Feb 12, 2019 22:19:47 GMT -5
I have a inside reamer but don’t typically have to use it.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Feb 13, 2019 6:32:36 GMT -5
been a while since I had that stuff out... thinking I've loaded 357 before I have a barrel & dies for either the 30 or 357... but it's been a long time since I've had that one out...
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Post by bula on Feb 13, 2019 8:35:08 GMT -5
I can recall the stories by Bob Milek of him and Steve (think I got the names right)playing with these years ago. I remember them cautioning folks to be careful adjusting the 357 dies, maybe the 30 too ? They said to start easy and adjust down until it takes a bit of effort to snap the action shut. A tight headspace on the shoulder. This sound right to you guys ?
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Post by magnumwheelman on Feb 13, 2019 8:39:12 GMT -5
yep... & there is very little shoulder on the 357 ( more I think about it, the more I think that is the one I have ) there is just the tiniest shoulder on the 357
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Post by alannadeau on Feb 15, 2019 16:07:55 GMT -5
I don't recall ever having to ream cases I made for 30 Herrett. Axe Handle, somewhere under my bench I have a quantity of 30 H cases. Not sure how they would fit in your barrel but if you want them you can have them for the cost of postage.
Lazy way of forming 357 H cases is to simply fire loaded 30-30 rounds in the Herrett barrel. If you snap the action firmly, maybe a couple times the 30-30 shoulder will get bumped back enough to make a crush fit with the case held tightly back against the breech. After that it's just a matter of trimming to length and load as 357H. I shot a lot of 357 Herrett rounds without having the "right" dies. Neck sized with a 38/357 carbide sizer and seated bullets with a Lyman P-A seater for 35 Rem. Those P-A seaters have been out of production, which is a real shame since they work so nice.
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Post by AxeHandle on Feb 16, 2019 7:18:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the offer but I'm good with making my own. I enjoy the process...  |
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ericp
.327 Meteor
Posts: 503
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Post by ericp on Feb 16, 2019 7:43:14 GMT -5
I haven't had to inside neck ream any 30 Herretts, my dad had a reamer for it and I recall him doing so but no idea what brand of brass he was using. This was about 30 years ago.
Eric
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 16, 2019 8:01:01 GMT -5
I don't recall ever having to ream cases I made for 30 Herrett. Axe Handle, somewhere under my bench I have a quantity of 30 H cases. Not sure how they would fit in your barrel but if you want them you can have them for the cost of postage. Lazy way of forming 357 H cases is to simply fire loaded 30-30 rounds in the Herrett barrel. If you snap the action firmly, maybe a couple times the 30-30 shoulder will get bumped back enough to make a crush fit with the case held tightly back against the breech. After that it's just a matter of trimming to length and load as 357H. I shot a lot of 357 Herrett rounds without having the "right" dies. Neck sized with a 38/357 carbide sizer and seated bullets with a Lyman P-A seater for 35 Rem. Those P-A seaters have been out of production, which is a real shame since they work so nice. ***** I remember Alan shooting his T/C Contender .357 Herrett. Those things kick, leastwise with the early Contender grips. Alan, didn’t you shoot cast? Might as well give AxeHandle you load(s). As for the .30 Herrett, never experienced a reason to neck ream. The .30-30 case is soft, intended to expand as necessary; would not have wanted to weaken it more by thinning neck. The .30 Herrett requires no special treatment. More efficient than the .30-30 in the 10-inch Contender, although I prefer the .30-30’s !:10-inch twist, certainly for silhouette bullets. David Bradshaw |
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Post by squigz on Feb 16, 2019 11:06:10 GMT -5
Y'all are selling me on the 30 herrett seems like it would be fun to get a 10" and run some 125gr nosler BT out of it.
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Post by alannadeau on Feb 16, 2019 20:13:43 GMT -5
***** I remember Alan shooting his T/C Contender .357 Herrett. Those things kick, leastwise with the early Contender grips. Alan, didn’t you shoot cast? Might as well give AxeHandle you load(s). David, I don't think I ever shot cast in the Herretts, I wasn't nearly as knowledgeable then as I am now. My go-to bullet for the 357H was the Hornady 200 gr. Spire Point. I did, however run cast in a 7MM TCU barrel I had later as a Production, Closed Breech. It was a Loverin design of around 150 grs. I would love to be able to share my load data but at that time I wasn't recording any of it. I put the load data on the cartridge boxes and once I got a load that worked I stayed with it. I've still got a 10" 357H barrel on that same frame I was shooting back then. Maybe a couple years ago I decided that if I was ever going to sell it it would be better to have dies to go with it so I bought a set from Hornady. |
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 17, 2019 12:22:28 GMT -5
Hornady Handbook #3 and Sierra Manual #3 both contain data for .30 Herrett and .357 Herrett. As will be seen from the bullet makers data taken with T/C Contender 10-inch barrels, velocity from the .30 Herrett is no slouch. The 1:14 twist is a limiting factor, although I had good experience with bullets up through the Speer 165 Round Nose. It was somewhat difficult to see much difference between Speer 150 S;patzer, Sierra 150 Spiter, Hornady 150 Spire Point, and the Speer 165 RN on rams @ 200 meters. Which leads me to believe the 150 grain Spitzer/Spire Point makes up in retained velocity for what the Speer 165 RN carries in momentum. Wobbly stands, railroad ties, dozer blades, and all sorts of bases were used for silhouettes. When you add mud & grit, there was no guarantee the 55 pound ram would topple. As Wichita Arms owner Nolan Jackson learned at a Kansas IHMSA match, where solid hits with Sierra 200 grain bullets----fired from his Wichita .308 Winchester bolt pistol with 15-inch barrel----left rams standing.
An advantage of tournaments comes with witnesses to these events.
The Herrett cartridges were developed for hunting, taking deer size game with lightweight rifle bullets, not heavies. From a 10-inch barrel, the .30 Herrett is much more efficient than its parent .30-30 Winchester. Nevertheless, the .30-30 became a star in IHMSA Production competition (eventually pushed aside by the 7mm TCU).
According to the Reloading Guide for Handgun Accuracy, compiled by G. Riley, J. Shaver and IHMSA vice president Bert Stringfellow as the IHMSA manual for silhouette handloading, the first Production 40x40 was shot by Bob Mijares (1979). The Reloading Guide lists H4227 and H4198 as the most consistent powders with 158 to 170 grain jacketed bullets. (26 grains/H4227 under Sierra 170 FMJ yields 2,000 fps with best accuracy.) The Reloading Guide does not list Alan Nadeau’s favored Hornady .358 200 Spire Point, no doubt as a stiff load behind this bullet in the Contender will pound the shooter. I never got along at all with T/C’s wood grips----the earlier, the worse. Even with the excellent Pachmayr’s which came later, the .357 Herrett loaded full stack has recoil. It is one thing to squeeze a few shots and quite another to keep cool nerves under recoil for half and hour or an hour straight through.
David Bradshaw
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Post by squigz on Feb 17, 2019 12:29:24 GMT -5
Hornady Handbook #3 and Sierra Manual #3 both contain data for .30 Herrett and .357 Herrett. As will be seen from the bullet makers data taken with T/C Contender 10-inch barrels, velocity from the .30 Herrett is no slouch. The 1:14 twist is a limiting factor, although I had good experience with bullets up through the Speer 165 Round Nose. It was somewhat difficult to see much difference between Speer 150 S;patzer, Sierra 150 Spiter, Hornady 150 Spire Point, and the Speer 165 RN on rams @ 200 meters. Which leads me to believe the 150 grain Spitzer/Spire Point makes up in retained velocity for what the Speer 165 RN carries in momentum. Wobbly stands, railroad ties, dozer blades, and all sorts of bases were used for silhouettes. When you add mud & grit, there was no guarantee the 55 pound ram would topple. As Wichita Arms owner Nolan Jackson learned at a Kansas IHMSA match, where solid hits with Sierra 200 grain bullets----fired from his Wichita .308 Winchester bolt pistol with 15-inch barrel----left rams standing. An advantage of tournaments comes with witnesses to these events. The Herrett cartridges were developed for hunting, taking deer size game with lightweight rifle bullets, not heavies. From a 10-inch barrel, the .30 Herrett is much more efficient than its parent .30-30 Winchester. Nevertheless, the .30-30 became a star in IHMSA Production competition (eventually pushed aside by the 7mm TCU). David Bradshaw To add to this, when Hornady removes loads from their books they post them online. A simple Google search for either 30 or 357 herrett will allow you to download a PDF file regarding those bullets from whatever listing was their latest published. So even though it's not currently published, data is readily available in this case. www.hornady.com/support/load-data/obsolete-reloading-data |
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Post by alannadeau on Feb 18, 2019 13:11:06 GMT -5
The Reloading Guide does not list Alan Nadeau’s favored Hornady .358 200 Spire Point, no doubt as a stiff load behind this bullet in the Contender will pound the shooter. I never got along at all with T/C’s wood grips----the earlier, the worse. Even with the excellent Pachmayr’s which came later, the .357 Herrett loaded full stack has recoil. It is one this to compose a few shots; quite another to compose nerves under recoil for 30 to 60 minutes at a time. David Bradshaw The wood grips that came stock on TCs were not a real shooter friendly. IIRC, I swapped out those for Pachmayrs and never looked back. For whatever reason it takes a LOT, as in 45-70 in a BFR, of handgun recoil to bother me. However I am a true wuss about rifle recoil and I have to really work hard not "yank & duck" on the trigger after a few shots. That 14" 357H barrel was equipped with a Williams Foolproof rear sight, I don't remember if it came with an aperture or if I swapped the blade for an aperture. Either way it had an aperture rear when I was campaigning with it. I shot from a laid on my side prone with my shooting arm slightly bet and off hand curled around/under the grip frame/receiver(been too long, I just don't remember exactly). With a firm grip on the gun but the elbow loose the gun would climb about 45° and rotate to the left with the gun and hand ending up in front of my left shoulder. That probably looked worse than it was since the recoil was dissipated in all that movement rather than slamming straight back to my arm & shoulder. Edd Cook tried it once left handed and crawled right up close to the rear sight. He scoffed at my warning that it was gonna bite him! He lit the fire and it bit, BOOM, OW! That knurled aperture peeled off a nice track of skin on his forehead. It was "only a flesh wound & a long way from the heart". I think Ray Lones was there for that one. Nobody laughed,,,, much |
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