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Post by newrugersafan on Jan 8, 2019 13:22:16 GMT -5
I have been casting and shooting the Mi Ha 477 385 grain hollow point bullet and shooting it in my 480 Bisley. These are cast with 50/50 wheel weight and pure lead and powder coated. I am getting small rings of lead in my cylinder after shooting these, the lead ring is loose and will sometimes fall out on it's own or can be pushed out.
When I load them up with a light load I don't notice the ring it seems to appear as I start to get to top end loads. My guess is that the base is bumping up and then being sheared off by the sharp edge at the transition from chamber to throat. I have not recovered a bullet yet to confirm this.
I am loading these long in the first crimp groove with a slight crimp and seating and crimping separately. The crimp is almost a taper crimp with just a very slight roll. I see the ring with 13.5 grains of HS-6.
I seen this come up before on the forum has it been determined what is occurring to cause this ring of lead ? The recovered ring is very thin with the powder coat intact.
Any ideas ?
Thanks
Mike
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Post by foxtrapper on Jan 8, 2019 15:06:17 GMT -5
Some say hardness of alloy, others say a slight reaming of the throats is the ticket to cure. Dougader or doug guy a member here or on the Ruger forum has the tools to fix the problem. I’m trying to remember.....
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,038
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Post by nicholst55 on Jan 8, 2019 16:13:08 GMT -5
Dougguy can fix that.
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wdr2
.30 Stingray
Posts: 147
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Post by wdr2 on Jan 8, 2019 16:49:44 GMT -5
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Post by leftysixgun on Jan 8, 2019 20:51:01 GMT -5
Doug is also a member of the Castboolits site.
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Post by 45MAN on Jan 9, 2019 8:13:30 GMT -5
WDR2: GREAT INFO, THANKS.
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Post by Alaskan454 on Jan 11, 2019 11:58:26 GMT -5
What does he charge for the service? Mine is incredibly accurate so I haven't messed with it yet, but does also give me rings in the cylinder.
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Post by leftysixgun on Apr 9, 2019 13:01:02 GMT -5
Has anyone had “Dougguy” cut their cylinder? How did the gun perform afterwards?
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 9, 2019 14:07:02 GMT -5
I have been casting and shooting the Mi Ha 477 385 grain hollow point bullet and shooting it in my 480 Bisley. These are cast with 50/50 wheel weight and pure lead and powder coated. I am getting small rings of lead in my cylinder after shooting these, the lead ring is loose and will sometimes fall out on it's own or can be pushed out. When I load them up with a light load I don't notice the ring it seems to appear as I start to get to top end loads. My guess is that the base is bumping up and then being sheared off by the sharp edge at the transition from chamber to throat. I have not recovered a bullet yet to confirm this. I am loading these long in the first crimp groove with a slight crimp and seating and crimping separately. The crimp is almost a taper crimp with just a very slight roll. I see the ring with 13.5 grains of HS-6. I seen this come up before on the forum has it been determined what is occurring to cause this ring of lead ? The recovered ring is very thin with the powder coat intact. Any ideas ? Thanks Mike ***** Mike.... might try pushing a few of your cast, powder coat bullets through CHAMBER EXITS (aka cylinder throat or throat). Providing chamber exits are free of sharp edges, and the bullet passes through with finger pressure, there should be no shaving. Revolver chamber* Rimmed case----chamber has a LEADE, or ramp, to transition from CHAMBER WALL to THROAT. The leade must be smooth, free of sharp edges. * Rimless case----chamber has a 90-degree shoulder to headspace the rimless case. There is no LEADE to transition from CHAMBER WALL to THROAT. The oven treatment for powder coating anneals the cast bullet. Sixshot and others can detail the softening affect. In my experience, POWDER COAT offsets the anneal, which prevents leading that would otherwise accompany a soft bullet pushed hard. You might try the same bullet over same powder charge with 1) powder coat & size, and 2) lube & size. As you surmise----since your bullets don’t lead the bore----the chamber(s) have a story to tell. Is the lead ring chamber diameter, or throat diameter? David Bradshaw |
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,038
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Post by nicholst55 on Apr 9, 2019 16:38:28 GMT -5
Has anyone had “Dougguy” cut their cylinder? How did the gun perform afterwards? Not on my .480 (yet), but on a .45 Colt. Doug does excellent work with a rapid turnaround. Just don't send the gun into Ruger with your newly honed cylinder (Doug uses a Sunnen hone, rather than reamers), because Ruger will very graciously replace your cylinder for you - with another cylinder with undersized throats. AMHIK. |
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Post by bula on Apr 10, 2019 9:58:48 GMT -5
With that particular bullet, it has been thought that the little, fragile band of lead between the cannelures may be shearing off. See if other cast bullets are in similar loadings are leaving behind lead rings before reaming or such.
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 10, 2019 10:47:28 GMT -5
With that particular bullet, it has been thought that the little, fragile band of lead between the cannelures may be shearing off. See if other cast bullets are in similar loadings are leaving behind lead rings before reaming or such. ***** bula.... agree, two tiny crimp grooves trying to replace one authentic crimp cannelure. The unsupported tiny band between tiny grooves specially designed to a) grip poorly, and b) shear. David Bradshaw |
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Post by bula on Apr 10, 2019 11:05:30 GMT -5
Yup, this came up as a possible source of the lead ring, back when Tank Hoover was posting here on testing loads in the then new BSBH. The idea was that if seated shallow the ring would shear as the bullet left the case. If seating long, it could get sheared, knocked loose by set-back. I'd like to hear from people that have SRH 480's and use this bullet, a seen issue for you ? Other bullets leaving lead rings in either firearm ?
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Post by newrugersafan on Apr 10, 2019 16:39:50 GMT -5
I have communicated with Doug and it appears to be a 3 step process to ream this cylinder.
1. Clean the area in front of the throat to remove any hardened carbon deposits. (May not be needed depending on condition)
2. Hone throat.
3. Change the angle of the transition from chamber to throat.
I'm on the group buy for the light version of this bullet with just a single crimp groove. I may wait to see how that bullet does before sending in the cylinder.
The ring of lead is chamber size and will not allow another cartridge to chamber until removed. I need to recover a bullet to see if it is the ring in between the crimp grooves. It seems odd that it would be from the crimp grooves though. In my mind that should become a smear in the throats as the rest of the bullet passes by. Uneducated guess on my part though.
I have some hard cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works that don't leave a ring but lead the bore on this gun. They are a LBT 400 gr.wfn gas check 22 bhn.
I need to get some pin guages and measure the gun and cylinder.
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,038
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Post by nicholst55 on Apr 10, 2019 17:52:25 GMT -5
Doug posted about this exact phenomena on Cast Boolits not long after the Bisley SBH .480s came on the market. Not sure what bullet design(s) the other people who encountered this were using, but it's certainly possible that they were using the same or a similarly designed bullet. Probably the easiest way to either confirm or eliminate this particular bullet is to try shooting a different design with a single crimp groove, and see if that bullet displays the same issue.
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