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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 3, 2018 11:48:46 GMT -5
Shotgun gurus,I giving a long look at this shotgun. Opinions please. Trying to keep in the $750 to 1k out the door range. I hunt grouse a couple times a season with a Lefever sxs 20 gauge. I will be heading out to Kansas for a late season pheasant hunt and feel a 12 or a 20 3” (lefever is 2 3/4) will benefit me. Any other guns I should be looking at? Thanks
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Post by bula on Dec 3, 2018 12:16:46 GMT -5
I'd consider the 686 Onyx Beretta and a Franchii per cost and gauge.
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Post by bula on Dec 3, 2018 12:22:33 GMT -5
Would be wise to ask the ask question at www.uplandjournal.com . Best bunch of bird hunters around. Tell'em that weird guy in NE Ohio sent ya.
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Post by mart on Dec 3, 2018 13:02:08 GMT -5
The CZ is a good gun though I am not personally a fan, but that has more to do with a personal matter than the quality of their guns. There are often some sub $1000 buys on Berettas. Don't be afraid of the older ones like the BL3 or 4 and the Silver Snipe. You will never wear one out. I would look for one choked IC and Modified. That will be the most useful combination you'll have for upland birds.
I've have several Berettas and consider them and Brownings to be the best value for the dollar in the O/U market. I sold my old Beretta 686 12 gauge a few years back when I became momentarily infatuated with SxS's. It had over 50,000 rounds through it and it was still tight. I regret having sold it. I have replaced it with a Beretta Blackwing, the predecessor to the 686 Onyx. Very nice gun and I also have a Blackwing in 20 gauge.
How is your Lefever choked? Too much emphasis today is placed on heavy loads. The 2 3/4" 20 gauge has been killing pheasants in Kansas and all places pheasants reside for decades. Some good 1 or 1 1/8 ounce 5's or 6's in your gun will do fine on pheasants. Before I moved to Alaska I was taking 50-75 a year over a dog with a 28 gauge and 3/4 ounce 6's and never found the load wanting.
The upland Journal is a great forum and there are some great guys over there. Like here, it is a bunch of fine gentlemen who are more than willing to share their experience and expertise.
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Post by bushog on Dec 3, 2018 14:56:41 GMT -5
I'd consider the 686 Onyx Beretta and a Franchii per cost and gauge. All 3 of my hunting scatterguns are 686s and my trap gun is a 682. Great guns...
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 3, 2018 14:56:48 GMT -5
The CZ is a good gun though I am not personally a fan, but that has more to do with a personal matter than the quality of their guns. There are often some sub $1000 buys on Berettas. Don't be afraid of the older ones like the BL3 or 4 and the Silver Snipe. You will never wear one out. I would look for one choked IC and Modified. That will be the most useful combination you'll have for upland birds. I've have several Berettas and consider them and Brownings to be the best value for the dollar in the O/U market. I sold my old Beretta 686 12 gauge a few years back when I became momentarily infatuated with SxS's. It had over 50,000 rounds through it and it was still tight. I regret having sold it. I have replaced it with a Beretta Blackwing, the predecessor to the 686 Onyx. Very nice gun and I also have a Blackwing in 20 gauge. How is your Lefever choked? Too much emphasis today is placed on heavy loads. The 2 3/4" 20 gauge has been killing pheasants in Kansas and all places pheasants reside for decades. Some good 1 or 1 1/8 ounce 5's or 6's in your gun will do fine on pheasants. Before I moved to Alaska I was taking 50-75 a year over a dog with a 28 gauge and 3/4 ounce 6's and never found the load wanting. The upland Journal is a great forum and there are some great guys over there. Like here, it is a bunch of fine gentlemen who are more than willing to share their experience and expertise. Thank u sir! I have no idea the chokes on the lefever. Is there a way of telling I.e measuring? I would love to use the lefever ,just don’t want to be underguned ! It’s a bit of a haul from Long Island to Kansas!
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 3, 2018 14:58:08 GMT -5
I see that 686 is popular here! Thanks Bushog!
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Post by mart on Dec 3, 2018 15:36:07 GMT -5
You could check some of your local guns shops to see if they have one of the little brass or aluminum choke gauges. They are not 100% accurate but will get you close. To be a hundred percent sure the barrels should be miked but finding a smith with an internal mike is hit or miss. If they do much shotgun work, they'll have one.
Is your Lefever a box lock (Ithaca/Nitro Express) or does it have side plates (original Lefever)? If it is a boxlock then it should have a 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 on the underside of the barrel block (the part that mates with the receiver). The chokes get tighter as the numbers go up; "0" is cylinder, "1" is improved cylinder, "2" is modified, "3" is improved modified and "4" is full choke. Ithaca bought out Lefever and sold a Lefever Nitro Express boxlock. Original Lefevers, pre-Ithaca, will be a sidelock.
If you have an original Lefever and can PM me pictures of the block and receiver I may be able to figure out the choke from the markings but will have to research my information.
You won't be undergunned with a 20 gauge 2 3/4". The Brits kill way more pheasants than us, at way farther ranges and far more difficult shots with 12 bore 2.5" one ounce loads. Essentially 20 gauge 2 3/4" field loads. We have been killing pheasants for 100 years with 20 gauge 2 3/4" 6's. Use a good quality load. Walk away from the cheap promotional loads and spring for the better quality loads, either 5's or 6's.
The key is do you shoot the Lefever well? A gun that fits you poorly and isn't patterning where you're looking is like shooting a rifle with the sights or scope out of zero. I would set up a pattern paper at 16 yards and shoot five rounds from one barrel at a sheet of paper. Change your paper and shoot five more rounds from the other barrel. Put a spot on the paper as a reference. I hesitate to call it an aiming spot as you shouldn't aim a shotgun. Bring the gun up just as you would on a flushing bird, both eyes open, find the spot and pull the trigger. Don't spend time trying to take careful aim like you would with a rifle. That will give you a false picture of how the shotgun hits for you. After five shots that should give you a good idea where the center of the pattern is hitting and if both barrels are shooting to the same point of impact. You do it at 16 yards instead of 40 so the pattern isn't spread out too much. It will give you a clearer picture of the impact center of the pattern.
If the gun is impacting centered and a touch high, you're in business. Shoot a few rounds of skeet of sporting clays to get ready. If it is hitting left or right of center or low let me know and I'll try to help you correct it by adding some adhesive padding to the stock to shift the point of impact.
Are you hunting over dogs, doing field drives or just boot hunting and jump shooting?
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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 3, 2018 17:51:02 GMT -5
I like the old Valmet 412, you can find them on GB for anywhere from 600.00 tp 1000.00, plus you can look for double rifle barrels when you get bored!!!! I took mine to Montana this year for ducks, geese and upland birds,..worked like a charm.
The CZ’s are strong smooth guns, I know several custom smiths use them for double rifle actions, Clark Customs is one. Trapr
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 3, 2018 18:18:00 GMT -5
Thank you mart. It’s a nitro special. I see the numbers ! I have a 4 and 2. You all convinced me that this is enough gun with premium ammo! Seems we will be hunting over dogs.Thank you so much for the help and information!
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 3, 2018 18:35:54 GMT -5
I like the old Valmet 412, you can find them on GB for anywhere from 600.00 tp 1000.00, plus you can look for double rifle barrels when you get bored!!!! I took mine to Montana this year for ducks, geese and upland birds,..worked like a charm. The CZ’s are strong smooth guns, I know several custom smiths use them for double rifle actions, Clark Customs is one. Trapr Thank you sir. Double rifle?? Your killing me! Lol off I go to Clark customs web page!
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Post by mart on Dec 3, 2018 18:46:44 GMT -5
It sounds like you have a Lefever Nitro Express, choked modified and full. Tough guns. Nearly indestructible to be honest. They are a very solid performer. Those Kansas pheasants will rue the day. Post some pics. We'd love to see your Lefever and some birds.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Dec 3, 2018 18:52:33 GMT -5
Do as you wish. I carried a double exactly one weekend. My late 70's 1100 has served me well and still going strong. My BIL has flat worn out two 1100 20 gauges and is on his third. Besides my first shot is usually a warning shot and the next two mean business,lol. Jeff
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 4, 2018 5:27:38 GMT -5
Do as you wish. I carried a double exactly one weekend. My late 70's 1100 has served me well and still going strong. My BIL has flat worn out two 1100 20 gauges and is on his third. Besides my first shot is usually a warning shot and the next two mean business,lol. Jeff Funny thing as I too have a mid 1970’s 1100 in 12 gauge 26” skeet choked. It’s been out of commission as it won’t fire. I take the trigger group out and the hammer will come forward when the triggers pulled. In the gun it won’t fire. Don’t have any smiths local that will handle it.
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 4, 2018 5:32:41 GMT -5
It sounds like you have a Lefever Nitro Express, choked modified and full. Tough guns. Nearly indestructible to be honest. They are a very solid performer. Those Kansas pheasants will rue the day. Post some pics. We'd love to see your Lefever and some birds. Be assured,pictures will be emailed or messaged if I do my part. Gonna be in Kansas the first week or so of January!
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