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Post by oregon45 on Sept 9, 2018 22:28:26 GMT -5
"I've developed a powerful hankering for an M1 Garand as a shooter and perhaps an "old rifle match" rifle to go along with my Grandfather's M1903 Springfield.” ----oregon45
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Post by cas on Sept 9, 2018 23:42:37 GMT -5
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Post by oregon45 on Sept 10, 2018 0:33:33 GMT -5
Seen it and read it.
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Post by heldfast on Sept 10, 2018 3:42:07 GMT -5
Since you've read thecmp.org, which grade are you looking at? It can be hard to find higher grades, and it can be expensive. Another option is to buy the cheapest one you can find and then send it off to someone like schuff who will tune, rebarrel with a criterion, even rechamber, refinish, and drop it into nice wood ... all for about what you might pay for a higher grade one. I personally think the CMP Specials are a great value, as they've already done alot of the work for you. But it depends on what you want. If you want a collector you can shoot, then you may be limited. If you want a shooter, well the options are good. If you think about shooting something other than milsurp ball in it, get a schuster plug for it. Enjoy!
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nicholst55 on Sept 10, 2018 7:36:59 GMT -5
I recommend joining a forum dedicated to the M1 and M14 rifles, and learning from those dedicated to them. I belong to this one, and can generally recommend it: m14forum.com/forums.php
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 10, 2018 7:49:41 GMT -5
oregon 45....
Were I to look for an M1 today, I would consider these possibilities: * Original production Springfield Armory (the real armory in Springfield, Massachusetts, where John Garand developed the rifle and it entered production), or another original M1 from Winchester, International Harvester, or Harrington & Richardson.
* To my thinking, an original rifle means U.S. government arsenal rebuilt, as all rifles were overhauled after WW II and, I believe, following the Korean War. There is no comparison between an arsenal rebuild and private enterprise garbage, such as notoriously displayed at gun shows. Cobbled together guns, often seen at shooting ranges, are nothing but problems.
* A Springfield Armory, Inc., M1, assembled in Genesco, Illinois. I have seen the receivers in the foundry at Sturm, Ruger in Newport, New Hampshire. It is my understanding the Ruger lost wax castings were shipped to Australia for machining, then shipped to Illinois for assembly. The SA Inc., M1 is available in .30-06 and .308 Winchester. Were I to buy an SA, Inc., I would give serious consideration to .308 Win for three reason: 1) ammunition generally cheaper, 2) high intrinsic accuracy of .308, and 3) the M1 operating rod holds up longer, and the barrel heats more slowly, in .308. (Note: the average shooter will not in his or her life tax the reliability and durability of an M1 Garand.)
M1 Garand Aerial Shooting David Bradshaw was posted on youtube by Singleactions member seancass.
If you must have an original, insure it is U.S. arsenal rebuilt. All original government specification parts were used, parkerized steel, walnut stocks, tuned & timed op rod. High Power Rifle great Sam Burkehalter switched me from G.I Lubriplate to synthetic grease in my teens, and I never looked back. Some petroleum lubes gum up in water, and stiffen in a hard freeze. As usual, my preference is for synthetic automotive lubes.
Avoid "M1 Thumb.” An M1 thumb happens when the operator depresses the follower, or loaded clip, and holds it down, while swinging the hand away from the rifle. A rigid salute hand avoids this injury. 1) To close action or dry fire: a) Start with OPERATING ROD at lockback. b) Stiffen hand into salute posture. c) Press heal of hand against OP ROD, retract slightly. d) Depress FOLLOWER with thumb. e) Ease BOLT forward to override follower. f) Raise hand as if to salute. g) Bolt slams into battery.
2) To charge with clip: a) Start with OP ROD at lockback. b) Position LOADED CLIP on FOLLOWER. c) Stiffen hand into salute posture. d) Press heal of hand against OP ROD, retract slightly. e) Press CLIP fully into magazine well----until it “clicks." f) Raise hand as if to salute. g) Bunt OP ROD forward with heal of hand. (Bolt may close on its own.)
Antique thought it may be, the M1 Garand is a rifleman’s rifle. David Bradshaw
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cmillard
.375 Atomic
MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,943
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Post by cmillard on Sept 10, 2018 10:27:54 GMT -5
Fulton armory also makes a mighty fine m1garand if you can’t get a camp one
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ericp
.327 Meteor
Posts: 503
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Post by ericp on Sept 10, 2018 19:18:56 GMT -5
I have a Winchester, shoot it mostly with cast. They are fun, fun, fun. I especially like making the 200 yard gong ring offhand. Mine has about 6000 rounds through it, haven't had anything break or seem like it needs replacement yet.
Eric
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nicholst55 on Sept 11, 2018 4:35:27 GMT -5
I have a Winchester, shoot it mostly with cast. They are fun, fun, fun. I especially like making the 200 yard gong ring offhand. Mine has about 6000 rounds through it, haven't had anything break or seem like it needs replacement yet. Eric I hope that you have replaced the operating rod spring several times during that 6,000 rounds.
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 11, 2018 8:51:15 GMT -5
"I have a Winchester, shoot it mostly with cast.... especially like making the 200 yard gong ring offhand. Mine has about 6000 rounds through it....” ----Eric
*****
Eric.... please share your cast bullet load for the M1, brass, bullet, powder & charge, and primer. Do you use a regular Full Length sizing die, or a Small Base sizing die? How often do you clean the gas cylinder and piston (op rod)?
As for shooting offhand @ 200 yards, yes, the Garand is one of the great offhand rifles. Same applies to the M-14. David Bradshaw
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Post by oregon45 on Sept 11, 2018 23:54:57 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm looking at the rack and field grade CMP rifles, as well as looking at rifles available locally. I checked out one yesterday with a '52 Springfield Armory receiver and a '43 SA bolt that was interesting. I passed because the stock was a mess and the rifle would likely have required a new barrel based on the condition of the rifling. I will say that learning about Garands is like drinking from a fire-hose--the amount of information available is impressive, and I'm looking forward to continuing to learn.
I'm interested in the use of the Garand with cast bullets. Are there any fouling issues with the gas port? I likely will not use cast myself (I have my '03 Springfield for that).
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nicholst55 on Sept 12, 2018 5:17:21 GMT -5
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 12, 2018 6:36:56 GMT -5
My experience is limited to government M1 Garands, standard and National Match. Wish I’d bought the NM I was shooting when it was offered to me for $136, same price as the old Model 70 Winchester, a handsome sum in 1962. My DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) M1 is the standard arsenal refurbish Springfield Armory, with a couple of NM parts. My first four shots with the rifle were taken with foreign ball @ 200 yards----after cranking rear sight to bottom detent, counting up 10-clicks. 4x4 printed 4-inches @ 200 yds. Wrapped a smile across my face, yet pretty much what I want from a REAL M1 GARAND.
Thoughts of glass bedding the rifle were overshadowed by the sober impulse to keep it GI original. The way it was explained by mentor riflemen Robert “Doc” Carroll, Hartley Perry “High Power” Smith, and Sam Burkehalter, a National Match barrel is nothing more than a standard 24" barrel----gun drilled, reamed & broached at Springfield Armory----which then passes the Star gauge and is stamped “NM.” Inevitably, barrels which would Star gauge made it through production without receiving the stamp. Doc Carroll lamented the stamping of a barrel close to the muzzle, a criticism any sharpshooter understands. I was on hand when Doc Carroll shot the Leech Cup at Camp Perry with his NM Garand and issue Nation Match 173 grain full patch boattail, which to this day is a round some persons claim inaccurate. Doc Carroll finished the 1,000 yard iron sight match with 99x100, which should illuminate a little of our affection for the M1. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 13, 2018 8:37:23 GMT -5
"I've developed a powerful hankering for an M1 Garand as a shooter and perhaps an "old rifle match" rifle to go along with my Grandfather's M1903 Springfield.” ----oregon45 ***** oregon45.... went back to read your “hankering for an M1 as a shooter” and “to go along with my father’s M1903 Springfield.” Since my initial response, I have tried to learn more about aftermarket options. It seems the SA Inc., M1 ceased production around 2007. A few notes:* My superficial search turns up some negative reports on the Springfield Armory Inc., (referred to as SAI) “cast” receiver “manufactured in Australia.” Ruger cast receivers for SAI at Pine Tree Castings in Newport, NH. The castings were shipped to Australia to be machined, then shipped to Illinois for assembly. I presume the receivers were heat treated, either in Australia or Illinois----not by Sturm, Ruger. Do your research if you have an interest in an SAI M1. * Surplus rifles provided to foreign countries are apt to be in sad shape, lacking knowledgeable field care or armorer support. * M1s cobbled together from any mixture of worn out and/or new, or barely serviceable, parts are SOP at gun shows. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a “take home" M1 at a gun show. * Were I to pursue a SAI M1, and I’d have to look a lot closer than I have, I’d closely check the .308 chambering (for reasons already stated). * From my beginning until now, I’ve shot loaded the government GI en bloc clip ONLY. No experience with aftermarket clips. Never had a lick of trouble from a GI clip: durable, consistent tension, doesn’t cut your fingers----or the brass. * Avoid unknown ammo. The Director of Civilian Marksmanship was replaced by the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). In time, the supply of available M1 Garands----and quality along with it----has dwindled. I would still take a Very Good G! rifle over any other. And why not? It’s all I know. Were I forced to homestead Alaska with a semi-auto, it would be an M1, M-14, a proven M1A, or Heckler & Koch 91. The FN FAL and .308 variants of Eugene Stoner’s rifle don’t have a place on the same rack. * A good M1A deserves consideration. The M1 Garand represents a seminal instrument in my development. My criteria for an acceptable M1 falls to the old NRA Very Good condition----as defined into the early 1960’s: No rust, hardly any finish wear, excellent bore, just about devoid of nicks and scratches, etc. Today it would be called “Like New.” David Bradshaw
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Post by cas on Sept 13, 2018 20:24:32 GMT -5
Over the years I bought one service grade complete rifle, one service grade barreled receiver, one rack grade rifle and one rack grade barreled receiver. And while I never gauged them, I couldn't tell the difference in the shooting.
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