gjn
.30 Stingray
Posts: 491
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Post by gjn on Nov 22, 2009 17:20:45 GMT -5
I was shooting a Freedom Arms Model 83 today in 475 Linebaugh and found full power loads are beyond my ability to handle though loads in the 900-1050 fps range are fine. It got me wondering what advantages/disadvantages are there to buying say a Freedom Arms in a caliber you can handle loads up to 100% power (ie 44 Mag.) adversed to the 475 Linebaugh/500 Wyoming where you can only handle loads up to maybe 70%. Assume the same gun in each caliber and you handload accordingly. The only big difference to my way of thinking is if you use cast bullets the advantage would go to the larger caliber loaded down because you have a larger metplate bullet to work with. If using jacketed bullets I see the advantage to the smaller caliber because you can load it to a higher velocity to insure greater bullet expansion. I don't see the trajectory as an issue as my maximum range for hunting would not exceed 100 yards. Just wondering what others think.
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Post by Mark Terry on Nov 22, 2009 19:38:43 GMT -5
I rarely shoot my 44 Mags or modern 45 Colts loaded to the max. I don't worry too much about penetration or bullet expansion. I shoot whitetails and have yet to have a Cape Bufalo come under my stand.
If a genie appeared and granted me three wishes, I might have to concern myself with all of this.
Now, that being said, if I had a 475 or 500 anything, I'd probably load and shoot them similarly (rarely to the max). Nope, I don't have one but it's just because fate's not had one cross my path at an appropriate junction.
Just my situation...
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Post by rep1954 on Nov 22, 2009 19:56:53 GMT -5
Well 1st off you bought the finest gun available to you for the money. The accuracy, and dependabiliy, and durability just cant be matched by a custom gunsmith for the same amount of money. 2nd the 475 L has advantages over the 44 Mag when handloading as being a larger caliber receiving the same tolerances it is less affected by variables because of its increase in dia. and mass, another plus for the accuracy. 3rd if loaded down to the same power levels as a 44 Mag it will opperate at lower pressures which usally means easier to load accurate loads. 4th as you mentioned the larger metplate is always better if used or not, if a hit isnt as good as it should or could have been it makes for better bleeding. 5th just the prestige in owning one of the finest firearms built is reason enough. I just whish they would start building them in 4140 with a blued and CCH finish so I could buy one.
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Post by Stump Buster on Nov 22, 2009 20:52:22 GMT -5
gjn,
Great post and this is why I think Ruger should have marketed their 480 a little better. It has been posted by myself and others on a regular basis that if Ruger had come out with a Blackhawk chambered in 480 Ruger, the cartridge would have been a MUCH bigger seller. The cartridge design is sound and I dare say, if a 4-5/8" Blackhawk in 480 Ruger had been released in stainless, it could have been considered a serious contender as the perfect packin' pistol candidate for the shooter looking for ONE handgun to keep him happy in all 50 states. It's about the top end MOST shooters WANT to tolerate on a regular basis. The bigger cannons are FUN, but you have to train yourself mentally and physically to shoot them on a regular basis. As it is, I'm sticking with the 45 Colt since ammo and the components are still more readily available, even in these dry times.
All the Best,
Stump
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Post by nonpcnrarn on Nov 23, 2009 9:51:28 GMT -5
gjn, Great post and this is why I think Ruger should have marketed their 480 a little better. It has been posted by myself and others on a regular basis that if Ruger had come out with a Blackhawk chambered in 480 Ruger, the cartridge would have been a MUCH bigger seller. The cartridge design is sound and I dare say, if a 4-5/8" Blackhawk in 480 Ruger had been released in stainless, it could have been considered a serious contender as the perfect packin' pistol candidate for the shooter looking for ONE handgun to keep him happy in all 50 states. It's about the top end MOST shooters WANT to tolerate on a regular basis. The bigger cannons are FUN, but you have to train yourself mentally and physically to shoot them on a regular basis. As it is, I'm sticking with the 45 Colt since ammo and the components are still more readily available, even in these dry times. All the Best, Stump I agree. I have a Puma in 480 Ruger that will get the full NKJ treatment including XS rear sight and large loop lever. I am seriously thinking of having one of my Birds Head Vaqueros converted to a 5 shot 480 with a 4" barrel and have Jim Stroh add adjustable sights. Or I have a 4 5/8" SBH that I could use which already has the adjustable sights. I can use one of the Birds Head grips from one of 3 that I own for the conversion. I think a 4" barrel should be about right. With a half cock, reversing cylinder pawl and his front sight with interchangable sight blades should round out the conversion. I would keep it blued to match the carbine. Northfork makes 260 gr all copper cup point solids in for the 45 Colt so I am biding my time for one in .475 cal. In the meantime one of the Birds Head Vaqueros is just begging for Jim Strohs adjustable rear sight and front sight kit. I mention this as I noticed you live in CA and sooner or later the CA Condor cr@p will hit the fan in N. CA. Those Northfork cuppoint solids are awsome and make the Barnes copper bullets look like spitwads. It all depends if you like hollowpoints or solids with big meplats. Back to the original topic I wish Ruger had come out with a 5 shot Blackhawk in 480. How many 357 mag Ruger New Vaqueros and mid framed Blackhawks were converted to 44 spl before Ruger came out with one of their own? I hope Ruger doesn't take as long with the 480. The cartridge has their name on it, you'd have thought from a marketing standpoint they would offer both a single and double action. Oh well, custom smiths need to feed their children and send them to college so I guess Ruger feels they are doing their part. |
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joej
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Post by joej on Nov 23, 2009 11:23:09 GMT -5
Great question gjn. Having a large caliber loaded to your liking will give you a few more options than a lesser caliber, if you’re in a position to take advantage of those options. In a hunting situation you might want to take into consideration some of these points. Killing power goes up with bore size and bullet weight but one must always use the correct bullet for the velocity of the cartridge and the size of the animal - just common sense. Today, when using large calibers at high velocity, they are usually more effective with heavy hardcast bullets, as the bullet will penetrate deeply enough to destroy the vitals and in most cases make a complete pass-through of the animal regardless of the angle presented.
Having said that, moderate or lower velocity is normally a better idea on North American game, as comparing 2 bullets of equal diameter/weight/construction, the bullet travelling at top end speed will produce the higher energy, which can have the negative effect of expanding some bullets at impact and thus reduce penetration. This is mainly a concern for those hunting game elk sized or larger and the shot angle is poor at best. The same bullet at lesser velocity will not expand or expand less resulting in deeper penetrate. When using a large caliber with heavy hardcast or solid bullets at moderate velocity the penetration can go beyond 40 or 50 inches in muscle & bone. Another benefit to large calibers using “moderate” velocities is you can use regular cup & core bullets that will not come apart, as quickly as they might at high velocity for deer size game. One also has to be aware that (non-premium) expanding bullets used in revolvers usually lose stability at upset and may not travel as intended – but that’s not usually a problem with the large caliber on deer sized game.
I think you made a wise purchase and the 475 Linebaugh at 900fps is more than adequate for anything in North America. Just use the right bullet. I don't think you can go wrong with a hardcast or a Hawk.
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RpR
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Post by RpR on Nov 23, 2009 13:16:37 GMT -5
There is an old saying: "Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
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Post by Markbo on Nov 23, 2009 15:44:00 GMT -5
.... 3rd if loaded down to the same power levels as a 44 Mag it will opperate at lower pressures which usally means easier to load accurate loads.... Unfortunatly that has not proven to be the case with my custom shop BFR. Maybe it's the shorter barrel, I don't know but I have had better luck with more powerful loads in this gun - and it definitely favors the heavier bullets over the 3xxgr bullets. Can you guys that have successfully downloaded the .475 share some load data with me for 400-420gr bullets? As much as I like shooting it, I can't shoot a whole lot of full power loads before the shakes set in. Thanks Mark |
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gjn
.30 Stingray
Posts: 491
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Post by gjn on Nov 23, 2009 16:02:44 GMT -5
Mark,
I was shooting LBT 420 WFN's over 8 grains of WW 231 in my 475. It was mild, burned very clean and accuracy was pretty decent.
Stump, I wholeheartily agree with you re: the 480 Ruger. I would love a 5.5" Bisley in 480 Ruger.
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Post by Markbo on Nov 23, 2009 16:10:29 GMT -5
Can the .480R be shot in a .475 L cylinder? Might be worth playing with for 'reduced' loads.
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Post by bigbores on Nov 23, 2009 17:24:14 GMT -5
Can the .480R be shot in a .475 L cylinder? Might be worth playing with for 'reduced' loads. Yes,the 480R is a shortened 475L. it can be shoot just like a 454 can shoot 45colt, only problem is you need to clean the cylinder out before going back to shooting the longer rounds(475L). |
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Post by boxhead on Nov 24, 2009 8:45:38 GMT -5
Can the .480R be shot in a .475 L cylinder? Might be worth playing with for 'reduced' loads. Just put together reduced loads in the 475 brass and forget the 480. Works fine for me. |
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Post by bfrshooter on Nov 24, 2009 13:39:06 GMT -5
I load all of my revolvers to the point of maximum accuracy and do not give a darn how fast it is. I NEVER take the chronograph to test loads.
Why do some need the max a revolver can do sure baffles me. Bragging rights maybe?
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joej
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Post by joej on Nov 24, 2009 18:07:34 GMT -5
I load all of my revolvers to the point of maximum accuracy and do not give a darn how fast it is. I NEVER take the chronograph to test loads. Why do some need the max a revolver can do sure baffles me. Bragging rights maybe? Naw, we just want to know. Several weeks ago I found out I never again want to push the 500 Linebaugh Maximum to 1,550fps or greater with a 440 grain bullet, even though it shot great. Sometimes you can get sweet spots around a certain velocity - you can express that in either grains of a certain powder, velocity or both. You probably just don't want to take the time setting it up, so you can just start shooting straight away  |
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Post by bfrshooter on Nov 24, 2009 21:14:52 GMT -5
I find that working loads will have groups tighten to a point, then start to open at the same rate they tightened. No sense going hotter. Just back down to the accuracy point.
You can then test primers and vary loads by 1/10 gr or anything else you want to do.
If you want to download the .475, go to HS-6 powder. It works great.
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