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Post by z1r on Jul 22, 2018 9:48:42 GMT -5
I missed out on a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag last week. Nicest JM made 94 I'd seen in a while and offered at a fair price. Got to the shop 15 minutes too late. I wanted a companion to my Nm 44 spl flat tops.
Went to the shop looking for a OM 3 screw Flat Top I knew the owner just took in as part of a trade. It too was gone. Dang, wanted to make another 44 out of it.
Then I spy the 94 AE in 45 Colt. Perfect timing since just that morning my Manson cylinder throat reamer showed up. Gonna "fix" my Vaquero whose throats measured a mere .450". Now I've got a companion for the Vaquero. Mmm, got the feeling I'll need to start looking for a NM Vaquero as they're a little easier to pack.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Jul 22, 2018 12:45:24 GMT -5
Too bad on the Marlin. I had one of the long barrel 94AE .44 Mags (XTR? It's been a while back) and traded it for the Marlin. Like a dummy I sold the Marlin later and haven't found a reasonably priced one since.
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Post by z1r on Jul 22, 2018 12:56:42 GMT -5
I'm still looking for another 44 Lever gun. Plan is to use it exclusively for cast 44 spl loads. I have one, but use it for 44 mags.
The Winchester has a 20" barrel which I prefer over the seemingly more common 16" trapper length.
Well, last week it came down to a choice between the Ruger Blackhawk 327 or the Marlin. The Ruger one. I was hoping it would still be there yesterday, and it was, just not at the same time I was, lol. I'm pretty happy with the Winchester though.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Jul 22, 2018 16:07:37 GMT -5
Can those lever action 44s and 45 Colts take the same pressures as a Super Blackhawk?
They would be interesting to me if they were twisted similar to the SBH. Which can be accomplished with a rebarrel. A 16 or 18" barreled 45 Colt pushing a 320+ gr cast boolit @ 1450+ fps would be quite dandy !!
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Post by z1r on Jul 23, 2018 11:33:23 GMT -5
Can those lever action 44s and 45 Colts take the same pressures as a Super Blackhawk? They would be interesting to me if they were twisted similar to the SBH. Which can be accomplished with a rebarrel. A 16 or 18" barreled 45 Colt pushing a 320+ gr cast boolit @ 1450+ fps would be quite dandy !! This article address loads deemed safe in 1892 and 1894 rifles.
gunsmagazine.com/the-45-colt-lever-action/
Biggest issue with those heavy bullets is that many will not feed through the action. Case in point, I love the SAECO .44 Cal 265 GC but it would not feed through my Marlin 1894. So, for cowboy shooting I have to load a different bullet. I like things simple and use the same bullet in rifle and revolver loads. less to keep track of that way.
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Aug 2, 2018 20:46:45 GMT -5
Biggest issue with those heavy bullets is that many will not feed through the action. Case in point, I love the SAECO .44 Cal 265 GC but it would not feed through my Marlin 1894. So, for cowboy shooting I have to load a different bullet. I like things simple and use the same bullet in rifle and revolver loads. less to keep track of that way. FWIW, the .45 Colt bullet in my avatar pic is 347 grains and cycles flawlessly through my model 92. I designed it for my Blackhawk, but it's a hoot to shoot in the '92!
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 3, 2018 2:56:50 GMT -5
What velocity do you get with that boolit from your Model 92 ? Nice looking boolit btw.
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rWt
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,431
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Post by rWt on Aug 3, 2018 7:29:20 GMT -5
What is the weight of your Win 94 in 45 Colt? Does if have the tang safety?
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Aug 3, 2018 17:18:44 GMT -5
What velocity do you get with that boolit from your Model 92 ? Nice looking boolit btw. Thanks. I haven't chrony'd them out of the long gun. The Blackhawk lobs them at ~1050fps. They're accurate and reasonably comfortable to shoot at that velocity and I don't feel compelled to push them any faster.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 3, 2018 20:50:00 GMT -5
I was shooting some of the Oregon Trail 360 grainers from my last 4 5/8" Blackhawk at around 1100 fps . Absolutely much more comfortable to shoot than a 44 mag, 240 gr @ 1400 fps . Much more comfortable to shoot than a same length barreled Blackhawk in 41 mag with factory 210/220 gr factory ammo which chronoed nearly 1450 fps.
People think the heavy boolits @ moderate velocity are hard kickers. But they aren't! 330-340 grain boolits @ 1200 fps from my 5.5" Bisely Convertible 45 Colt cylinder are no strain. No, I wouldn't want to shoot a hundred of them at a range session. But 30 or 40 rounds is no problem.
Imo high velocity makes a handgun unpleasant to shoot. Not heavy bullets.
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Post by z1r on Aug 4, 2018 22:18:52 GMT -5
What is the weight of your Win 94 in 45 Colt? Does if have the tang safety? Mine is 6.25 lbs and has the crossbolt safety.
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Post by bradshaw on Aug 12, 2018 21:11:26 GMT -5
"Can those lever action 44s and 45 Colts take the same pressures as a Super Blackhawk?" ----coldtriggerfinger
*****
Expect the manufacturers would frown upon loads above SAAMI established pressure. In the case of the .45 Colt, perhaps “Ruger Blackhawk” pressures, certainly below SAAMI pressures for the .44 Mag.
Worked with Federal Cartridge in the late 1970’s on developing a a silhouette grade .44 Mag load with the Sierra 220 FPJ (Full Profile Jacket). Most of my shooting was done @ 100 meters, Creedmoor on cardboard pigs, and silhouette pigs cut from 1/2-inch mild steel and pigs cut from 1/2” T-1 steel. I settled on Win 296 and Hodgdon 110 (which is 296). As I was shooting silhouettes with an “old model” SBH 7-1/2” with brass grip frame, and a Smith & Wesson M-29 8-3/8-inch. Both revolvers factored in selection to the IHMSA All-America Team. One of the loads I sent up to Federal had the Sierra 220 FPJ cramped down on a rather generous pour of 296/H110, in Federal brass and magnum primer, CCI or Federal. The load gouged deep craters in the soft 1/2” steel @ 100 meters, putting bulb on the backside. These loads were stiff in the Model 29, but simultaneous extraction remained smooth.
Shortly thereafter, I received a call from Federal; they’d blown up a Marlin .44 Mag in the lab with that load. I think they tried the same load----without damage----in a Super Blackhawk. I have no explanation, and was not given pressure figures. Federal went on to introduce the Sierra 220 FPJ load, code 44C, in nickel brass.
Carbines easily boost the .44 Mag 300 fps over revolver velocities, sometimes 500 fps more. There is no practical reason to exceed standard pressures when loading for the carbine or rifle. Nor has the .45 Colt reason to load Rocks & Dynamite. David Bradshaw
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 12, 2018 22:50:47 GMT -5
That makes sense. Seems S&W pressure loads would still provide a significant velocity increase due to the longer barrel and no cylinder gap. 1500 fps with a 300 gr bullet is nothing to sneeze at.
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gregs
.30 Stingray
Posts: 449
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Post by gregs on Sept 30, 2018 12:31:57 GMT -5
The 94 action is rated for the 30-30 so, about 32-35K design. The 92 action is in the 40-50k range. The length they can take the higher extremes without bolt damage is questionable and parts are hard to come by.
I had a 94 Trapper that regularly digested 18 or 19 gr of 2400 with a 255 and showed no wear but note when the 375 Win came out, the factory beefed up the sides of the 94 action to preclude frame spreading at the locking bolt.
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Post by 44magloader on Oct 28, 2018 1:31:45 GMT -5
I shoot Cast Performance 44 mag 300 grain WFNGC out of my Winch Trapper as my go to hunting load, have for years. Run them over 21.5 grns H110 cci 350 primers. Great load for my Trapper and both my Super Blackhawks. And very accurate. Never any pressure signs.
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