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Post by webber on Jan 6, 2018 14:13:54 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw,
The only cast bullets I have are the Lyman 429421 and the H&G 503. Can I load the same loads with them and crimp over the shoulder. This crimping over the shoulder is new to me and just wondered. The alloy is Lyman #2.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 6, 2018 17:32:57 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw, The only cast bullets I have are the Lyman 429421 and the H&G 503. Can I load the same loads with them and crimp over the shoulder. This crimping over the shoulder is new to me and just wondered. The alloy is Lyman #2. ***** Yes. I came to DEEP SEATING at age 18 when I bought a C-H Swage-A-Matic press and dies to swage copper half-jackets with pure lead cores for the .357 Mag, followed by .44 Mag. No crimp cannelure; obliged to DEEP SEAT or distort bullet. No one mentioned the seating challenge, so I pushed ‘em into the case to roll crimp over the shoulder of the SWC without bending the edge of the sharp shoulder. Phenomenal accuracy from Rugers and then Smith & Wessons. Below 1,100 fps, beyond which the unlubed bullet would start to lead. The .44 240 grain swaged half-jacket SWC a pure deer-puncher @ 1,060 fps. ACCURACY x INTENTION = MARKSMANSHIP. 17 grains of the old Hercules 2400 with CCI 350 mag primer in Winchester or Remington brass performed the job. Ditto Norma brass, acquired buy firing the wide-nose truncated cone steel jacket Flat Point. Norma brass seemed to embrittle too early to reach old age, also to corrode faster in leather belt loops, thus could not last as long. Remington and Winchester brass seemed too last forever. Likewise in .357 Mag, a swaged half-jacket 158 SWC HP DEEP SEATED over 12/Hercules 2400 with CCI 550 mag primer proved tight enough for 4-inch groups, offhand @ 100 yards, from my S&W Model 19 4-inch under my young eyes. Actually, the .44 Mag is one of the most forgiving cartridges to handled ever stuffed into a sixgun. We’re talking ACCURACY, not infantile handloading. Any purple-ass baboon can blow up a gun. The point is, there are tons of loads which shoot straight from a correct revolver in .44 Magnum. The cast bullet part comes down to the mold and the caster, as no revolver can make an imbalanced bullet fly straight. May one substitute a Hornday or Speer or Nosler for a Sierra with the same comfort zone powder and charge? The answer is YES. Will the accuracy be the same? The answer is NO. Not unless the replacement bullet is balanced so dead nuts it hangs forever on the bore axis, bending only for gravity and wind. David Bradshaw
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Post by webber on Jan 8, 2018 14:43:41 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw,
Have you done any work with the Hornady 200 grain XTP in the 44 mag as far as accuracy work out to 200 meters? If you have what have you found out? Are Nosler 44 caliber bullets worthwhile as far as accuracy out to 200 meters?
Thanks.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 8, 2018 18:16:47 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw, Have you done any work with the Hornady 200 grain XTP in the 44 mag as far as accuracy work out to 200 meters? If you have what have you found out? Are Nosler 44 caliber bullets worthwhile as far as accuracy out to 200 meters? Thanks. ***** Hornady made consistent, accurate jacketed hollow points in .357, .41. and .44 prior to release of the XTP (Extreme Terminal Performance). The JHPs used a pure lead core. I have rather extensive experience with the Hornady JHPs and never got so deeply into the XTP. On deer, the JHP mushrooms consistently, without fracturing or flattening. The JHPs work in Marlin lever action carbines as well as sixguns. The jacket of the XTP sometimes folds flat against the bearing surface of the bullet, making a rough wadcutter. Handgun hunters with whom I shoot have more experience with the XTP and do well. The Nosler JHP looks the spitting image of the old Hornady, right down to the pure lead core. I have used them on whitetails with the same lethal result. The Hornady .44 200 JHP spells curtains on a pair of lungs, yet likely to get gathered up on a shoulder, likewise short of penetration on raking shots. Just 40 grains more lead----weight of a .22 Long rifle----in the 240 JHP reaps much better penetration. The Hornady .44 200 JHP is a genuine 5x5, 2-inch bullet @ 100 yards. The Nosler 200 JHP punches like the Hornady, and my handholds have put the crimp on whitetails from Marlin .44 Mag carbines. I haven't wrung out the Hornady or Nosler 200 JHP @ 200 yards. Punch-wise, the 240 JHPs are much better beyond 50 or 75 yards. As for light .44s specifically shot beyond 100 yards, both the Federal 44B 180 JHP and the Sierra 180 JHC have the balance for 5x5 into 6 to 7-inches @ 200 Yards; taking in sixgun and shooter. Shooting is the best way to blow a myth out of the water. The idea that a light bullet with short wheelbase cannot fly straight is just that----a myth. A .357 125 JHP, a .41 i70 JHC, and a .44 180 JHP each of necessity wears a short bearing surface. Given balance, each cuts inside the 4-inch @ 100 yard criteria appropriate for a hunting bullet. Another myth deserving death claims accuracy dies as a bullet goes transonic. BULLROAR. A revolver bullet started at 1,300 or 1,400 fps tends to go transonic somewhere in the neighborhood of the metallic pig standing on its rail @ 100 meters. Many magnum revolver bullets drop transonic by the turkey @ 150 meters (164 yards). Some are down to 900 fps at 200 meter ram (two football fields, two end zones). If bullets shot through sixguns by the thousands suffered transonic accuracy loss, the female and male champions of silhouette should surrender their trophies. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 8, 2018 18:54:17 GMT -5
Webber.... did I hijack my own thread or your question?
As, beginning in my teens, I was forced by bullets without cannelure to DEEP SEAT the practice comes natural. Providing your cast bullets are in balance, and don’t wobble in the groove, they should fly straight. We are just now coming out of the -15 to -25 fahrenheit I shot under yesterday; on that recommendation, all I can say is SHOOT. Don’t forget your notebook.
The reason we may prejudge accuracy from Sierra and Hornady, etc., owes to manufacturing. Cast bullets come from bajillion sources, thus remain a continuing variable. Good shooting, David Bradshaw
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Post by webber on Jan 8, 2018 19:02:50 GMT -5
I guess due to my interest in the accuracy aspect of loading I hijacked your thread. They are few silhouette shooters now that one can ask and I may have taken advantage of your kindness. I am sorry if I did. If you prefer I will not ask anymore questions. Although I am a hardheaded individual at times I love to learn.
Thanks.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 8, 2018 22:41:55 GMT -5
webber.... no alchemy in REVOLVER ACCURACY. Leastwise, in the reporting of it. The technique is to shoot first, write after. Takes notes. Notes don’t forget, so record keeping should be simple & clear.
Marksmanship is a process of replacing what doesn’t work with what works. Replace the abstract with the specific.
3 Leg Stool 1) MARKSMAN a) shoot. b) hone technique.
2) GUN a) reliable. b) accurate. c) durable.
3) LOAD a) accurate. b) consistent. c) matches gun. d) matches job.
The revolver comes before the load. Load cannot work by itself. In the old days, the shooter would slug the bore before casting bullets. The practice was to make bullet .001” over groove diameter. Today’s shooter should slug the bore for that and an another reason: to check groove for uniformity----loose and tight spots play hell on accuracy.
Throw lead like each shot is the only one you have. David Bradshaw
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