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Post by bobwright on Dec 4, 2013 21:28:33 GMT -5
As to the Colt Single Action Army, there have been may copies over the years. The earliest, so far as I know, were the Belgian made sixguns. These, and the 1950s era Great Western revolvers, were referred to as "copies." The current Italian models are called "clones." What makes one a copy, and another a clone?
I'm guessing the "copy" is a gun almost like the Colt, that is, minor differences, as in the frame mounted firing pin of the Great Western. The Italian copies, especially from Uberti, with which I am more familiar, are near duplicates in all features. Following this definition, the Ruger Vaquero would be a copy. For this discussion, guns such as the Ruger Blackhawk and Abilene are modern designs of the Single Action and fall outside the realm of this classification.
Or is the word "clone" simply a modern day application of the term?
Bob Wright
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RpR
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Post by RpR on Dec 4, 2013 21:36:43 GMT -5
A clone is technically an exact duplicate, so there are few true clones.
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dmize
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Post by dmize on Dec 4, 2013 21:43:19 GMT -5
I think that the Uberti's,especially modern ones would definitely qualify as clones.
Enough so I know of 1 person that got burnt very badly buying an antiqued Uberti after being convinced it was a Colt.
Yes the guy was a moron for buying it in the first place,but I also know of people blinded by dollar signs buying cloned muscle cars.
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Post by savit260 on Dec 4, 2013 22:42:21 GMT -5
Copy/replica/clone all seem pretty interchangeable to me.
I don't know if I'd call a New Vaquero any of those words though.
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Post by sierra11b on Dec 5, 2013 0:47:20 GMT -5
Seems a copy would suggest trademark infringement, a clone would suggest everything is the same (even the metallurgy) as the original (which it is not). Personally, I prefer the term "homage" to the original unless, of course, it does have the rampant colt and colt-style grips, which I believe has happened and is a copy designed to deceive.
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Post by bushog on Dec 5, 2013 9:14:06 GMT -5
To be the total Pinhead, technically speaking there necessarily cannot be such a thing as a clone of such a thing.
It's a misuse of the word to give the illusion of duplicity.
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Post by bobwright on Dec 5, 2013 11:18:01 GMT -5
Well, in today's vernacular, I will reserve the word "clone" for a gun that is a very faithful copy of the Colt SAA, while a look-alike, such as the Vaquero or the Uberti Horseman to be "copies."
'Nuff said.
Bob Wrioght
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Post by taffin on Dec 5, 2013 12:57:23 GMT -5
To be the total Pinhead, technically speaking there necessarily cannot be such a thing as a clone of such a thing. It's a misuse of the word to give the illusion of duplicity. ABSOLUTELY!! |
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Post by savvyjack on Dec 5, 2013 20:11:28 GMT -5
When a company uses an original mold/tooling, it is an original. When the same company, or a company that has purchased said equipment continues to build but has updated (replaced old with new....stuff does wear out)the mold/tooling, it is then an copy of an original. When a company builds a "like" revolver such as Ruger, Uberti, USFA, it is a replica and can have many different attributes.
Original
Copy
Replica
Clone is a scientific name of an illusion that is not concrete.
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Post by bushog on Dec 5, 2013 20:12:22 GMT -5
To be the total Pinhead, technically speaking there necessarily cannot be such a thing as a clone of such a thing. It's a misuse of the word to give the illusion of duplicity. ABSOLUTELY!! Whew! |
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Post by Markbo on Dec 6, 2013 14:42:19 GMT -5
...Clone is a scientific name of an illusion that is not concrete.... Well that's not right. As JT is fond of pointing out a Clone is a living creature. A Replica is not - necessarily. HOWEVER... I did find this definition. Note #3 - A person or thing bearing a very close resemblance to another person or thing It says nothing about an illusion of being anything else, just bearing a very close resemblance. clone [kləʊn] n 1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Genetics) a group of organisms or cells of the same genetic constitution that are descended from a common ancestor by asexual reproduction, as by cuttings, grafting, etc., in plants 2. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Genetics) Also called gene clone a segment of DNA that has been isolated and replicated by laboratory manipulation: used to analyse genes and manufacture their products (proteins) 3. Informal a person or thing bearing a very close resemblance to another person or thing4. (Electronics & Computer Science / Telecommunications) Slang a. a mobile phone that has been given the electronic identity of an existing mobile phone, so that calls made on the second phone are charged to the owner of the first phone b. any similar object or device, such as a credit card, that has been given the electronic identity of another device usually in order to commit theft |
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Post by TERRY MURBACH on Dec 6, 2013 14:47:17 GMT -5
I think Mr. Ken Phelps had it right over fourty years ago when he started REPLICA ARMS in Marietta OH and began importing the Uberti line [ maybe the first to do so...?] of SA pistols in C&B and cartridge. He was a heck of a swell fellow too.
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Post by CraigC on Dec 6, 2013 14:53:12 GMT -5
It appears to me that the term "clone" only gets applied with regards to Colt's. I don't hear that term used in reference to replicas of the many American long rifles, Winchester leverguns & single shots and the various 18th - 19th century blackpowder long arms. Only Colt revolvers. Not even Remington, LeMat, Rogers & Spencer, Spiller & Burr, Dance & Brothers, Starr, S&W, etc..
They're all replicas to me, even 2nd and 3rd generation Colt's.
The Ruger sixguns are inspired by and based on Colt sixguns but are not replicas of them.
IMHO, they should all be judged based on merit, not the name stamped on them.
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RpR
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Post by RpR on Dec 6, 2013 18:14:35 GMT -5
...Clone is a scientific name of an illusion that is not concrete.... Well that's not right. As JT is fond of pointing out a Clone is a living creature. A Replica is not - necessarily. HOWEVER... I did find this definition. Note #3 - A person or thing bearing a very close resemblance to another person or thing It says nothing about an illusion of being anything else, just bearing a very close resemblance. clone [kləʊn] n 1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Genetics) a group of organisms or cells of the same genetic constitution that are descended from a common ancestor by asexual reproduction, as by cuttings, grafting, etc., in plants 2. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Genetics) Also called gene clone a segment of DNA that has been isolated and replicated by laboratory manipulation: used to analyse genes and manufacture their products (proteins) 3. Informal a person or thing bearing a very close resemblance to another person or thing 4. (Electronics & Computer Science / Telecommunications) Slang a. a mobile phone that has been given the electronic identity of an existing mobile phone, so that calls made on the second phone are charged to the owner of the first phone b. any similar object or device, such as a credit card, that has been given the electronic identity of another device usually in order to commit theft When you get into tertiary definitions, the word has started to lose meaning. Some dictionaries put them in because they have become common vernacular, whether the meaning is correct or incorrect. An inanimate clone would be a duplicate. duplicate 1. exactly like something else, esp. through having been copied |
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Post by Cholla on Dec 7, 2013 10:54:28 GMT -5
With regards to "copy" and "clone" in the world of firearms, I think they're synonymous. I just finished completely tearing down, cleaning and repairing an original Colt Bisley. Over the last year or so I've been into and worked on several 1873 Uberti's and one Uberti Bisley as well. To me the Uberti's would qualify as "clones" or "copies" (take your pick)because their design and their function is identical. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if their parts interchanged though I didn't take time to try when I had the Bisley disassembled.
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