finally got the chance to shoot my "fake" martini yesterday.

[magnumwheelman]

my retired builder buddy ( who did the rifle work for me ) wanted to come over & shoot a couple of rifles he built from scratch over the winter, yesterday, & since we had 2 sunny days in a row, & we could drive across the short stretch of field to my range, I was glad for the break...I have what we thought was a Martini carbine, when I bought it, which turned out to be a really nicely counterfeited Enfield, ( I can't believe I just said that ) once we opened it up, that became glaringly apparent... ( barrel threads were custom hand made, & the guts were ( let's be nice, ) & just say crude... I didn't pay much for the carbine ( which was chambered in 303 when I bought it ) because it had obvious issues in the action... the gun had most of the pits polished out & was re-blued, & the wood was very nice, before I bought it & it may have even been actual Enfield wood... ( BTW... this was a gun show buy, where the seller told me it had been authenticated at "the North Dakota State Gun Auction... so always be wary when you are buying these old "milsurps" )

my buddy likes working on old Enfields, & has a lot of parts on hand... so when we discovered that it was "fake" we had to 1st decide what to do with it... we decided to rebarrel / rechamber in 30-30 to get the pressures down, after the barrel was on, a minimum of work was done, so we could re-proof the action, once that was successfully proofed, & no stretching or damage was noted, we stamped "not Brit" prominently on the receiver, as well as the metric designation for the 30-30 cartridge ( we had decided before that, that I could probably get a long life out of the carbine, with light to medium pressure 30-30 loads, so we stamped this stuff on the gun, to keep it from getting a life of hot 30-30 loads after I'm gone, as a "real" Enfield could likely handle )... anyway, my buddy went & refit as much "real" Enfield parts as possible ( including the rear sight ) but had to leave & re-fit / repair some of the internals, because the pin holes were not exactly true ( larger custom tool steel pins were fabbed & fit to the gun )

anyway, I really love the old Enfield Martini's & this would have been my 3rd ( if it had not turned out to be a "fake" ) but it really has a nice look in the carbine form... shooting it for the 1st time yesterday was quite impressive, how he was able to get the trigger & action that smooth it actually has a better trigger than my other 2 custom Martini's... 1st 3 shots were 11" low & about 5" to the left... I brought the rear sight up to the 1st little step, & the next 3 were level with the bulls eye & that same 5" to the left... the front sight is custom, & was designed from the beginning to be filed to suite so I'll take about 1/16" off & bring the rear sight back down, as well as drift it over a little in the dovetail next time I have it out, I should be able to bring it in nicely... the barrel was a 300 Win Mag take off barrel, that looked new, we were able to trim off the chamber, & still end up with a contour that fit the barrel bands & match the barrel length that was on the carbine when I bought it...

I was not shooting well yesterday, as I had jumped off the tractor, out in the pasture, & landed with my foot 1/2 in a hole, I heard a loud crack, & went down like a sack of potatoes... this was most evident with my 257 Single "8" I also shot yesterday... groups were so bad, I put it away, as I was just wasting ammo ( something I don't like to do, when I'm developing loads ) ... so, I was not unhappy with both 1.5" groups yesterday out of the carbine at 50 yards... even though I think I just ended up with a sprain, I really enjoyed shooting my new forgery & honestly, can't wait to take it out again...

This is what the carbine looked like when I bought it... nice on the outside... not so nice on the inside...

[magnumwheelman]

so no one likes the Enfield Martinis, or are you guys snubbing my "fake" one (lots of views, no replys)

My best guess it's a "well made" Khyber pass copy ( did I really just say that ) it had all the Enfield stamps, even the crown looked pretty good, however looking at it closer, the letter stamps were just that, individual letters... spaces weren't perfect... however the insides were the biggest tell, much cruder looking parts, the stock bolt was obviously hand made, & the threads on the stock bolt & barrel / receiver were all something in of their own size... like 1/2 way between metric & standard... the stock bolt unscrewed with a large "orbit" since the threads were unique, my buddy re-used that, but put it in his lathe & trued the bolt, so it didn't screw in turning a 6" orbit like it came out... as I said, the wood was either quite well made, or actual Enfield wood was fit... it actually looked very much like a "real" Enfield on the outside...

we proofed the rifle with warm 30-30 loads, with lightly greased brass ( so the brass wouldn't grip the chamber sidewalls, & put full thrust on the breech, precise measurement of the receiver & breech block were done before & after firing 3 greased cartridges & everything mic'd out the same, so we figured it safe for normal 30-30 loads, with the recommendation, of only loading mid range loads, which was fine for me...

... as mentioned in the 1st post, I can't believe how nice & smooth the action & trigger are after my buddy finished with it... & I actually can't wait to get it out & get the front sight drifted a little & get it filed, so it's shooting to aim

[mooshoo]

well I think it looks pretty cool, how did it shoot?

[olgeorge]

The late Frank deHaas wrote a magazine article many years ago on gunsmithing and converting Martin Enfields. He had even converted one to .30-06. Later he recommended against that chambering. Martinis seem to be pretty scarce these days. Back in the early '60s they were fairly plentiful and cheap. You could buy an unaltered Australian cadet rifle for $10. I don't recall what the big British models were going for, but it wasn't much more than that. I once owned a Greener Police Gun (Martini action)which had been altered to chamber a standard 12 ga, shell. Never understood why they would want a single shot riot gun. L. O. G.

[mooshoo]

I found a cadet that had been converted to 357 mag, decided I needed it went back for a couple days later and somebody else picked it up, I hate that when that happens

[magnumwheelman]

me too... I've got a late 60's early 70's custom Remington rolling block, that literally haunted me, after I touched it, it was like something ingrained into me, & I had to have it... went back the next day... whew... it was still there... I wasn't so lucky with an old Winchester Low Wall that someone had abused by chambering it in 44 Magnum... I went back the next day to rescue that one, with intention of re-barreling to a more suitable cartridge... but it was gone... poor thing is probably out there getting abused with hot 44 mag loads until it loosens to the point of junk...

BTW... I also have a couple tropical ( long levers )one in 45-70 ) I call that one my safari rifle, as it had a light weight hex barrel, & a set of 3 leaf sights... the other is not as nice, or as tight, but is chambered in 50-70... love shooting both of those

I've always wanted a cadet in 22 Hornet...

[mooshoo]

I'd like to see some pics of those rifles if you have any

[Frank V]

Just now saw this thread. I think the Martini is a nice action.
The Cadet has been made into a number of wildcats.
I have a friend who built a Cadet into the .218 Bee Mashburn improved.
Had to bush the firing pin, but it's a great shooter.

I'm wondering what an original Martini in .577 Snider would be like?
Similar to the .50-70?

[magnumwheelman]

my 45-70 & 50-70... nothing too pretty, really just working guns...





a couple pics of that haunting rolling block...

before... in too hot a cartridge for the black powder action ( 220 Swift )





after... ( still during construction )... in 32-40

[Frank V]

Magnumwheelman

Wow, I like those Martini's. The rolling blocks too.
The express sight on the top one looks great, useful too I'll bet!
I'd kind of like a rolling block in .50-70, maybe someday.

[magnumwheelman]

I actually like the rolling blocks for relaxing & shooting off the bench, as I don't need to un-bed the rifle ( though it's nice to get some camming with a Martini... I used a Navy Arms 40-65 rolling block a couple years ago, & shot my 1st long range steel buffalo shoot... I hit 10 for 10 & could have maybe won, if I'd have tried... but since it was my 1st time, I took my time walking up the hill ( not jogging ) forgot to put my ear plugs in, so I laid the rifle down & put my plugs in, & was only a couple seconds slower than the winning time... that one is not as pretty as the Remington, but wears a tang sight, so it was legal for the CAS side match ( the Martini's are not CAS legal for some reason, even though they are plenty old )... I still need to get the Remington high polish blued like it was with the 22 barrel, & the butt plates ( 3 ) are steel, adjustable, & will be painted red, white & blue to keep with it's 60's - early 70's look... the stock is incredible, & that burl is really tight & heavy

BTW... express sights are sighted in ( where I stopped after having the rifle built ) for 50, 75, & 100 yards... been thinking about filing them to 50, 100, & 150 yards... they are not stamped for distance yet...

[magnumwheelman]

BTW... here's a good "tale" for you guys... my 50-70 was one of several guns that was found in the remains of a wooden box in a river outside Northfield MN... most guns in the box were revolvers... it's been theorized that it could have been a cache of guns stored there (beside) the river by the Younger Gang before their failed bank robbery attempt... my Martini of course needed all internal parts, a new barrel, & new wood, but we left the receiver in river aged condition, just because... while Martinis are normally quite strong, this one will live out the balance of it's life shooting mid power level 50-70 loads... it's a little loose, but still fun to shoot...& theorize on who could have shot it in the past...

[mooshoo]

those are wild looking safari guns I bet they could tell some stories

[magnumwheelman]

shot my "fake" Martini again Sunday... filed the front sight down, & drifted it to the left... shot it, drifted it again... then noticed there was some wiggle on the rear sight ( this is a "real" Enfield sight in pretty good condition ) ( my builder buddy was over shooting again )so I noticed if I pushed the rear ladder sight to the right, before I shot, & I was shooting 1.5" groups at the bullseye, off the bench, at 100 yards( about as good as I can shoot iron sights anyway ) so my buddy looked at it, & we came up with a plan for tightening up the rear sight, & adjusting it a bit more to the right, so hopefully I can drift my front sight back to close to center... there are elevation ridges on both edges, that with the ladder sight folded down, fit into the center of the sight, & hold it steady... that fit is loose, so we are going to tap the one edge over a little for a tighter fit, & may file a little off of the left side to move the sight a bit more right, when it's in the down position...when the sight is flipped up, it appears more rigid, but it's unlikely I'll ever use the extreme long ranges marked on that portion of the sight, since my range only goes out to 300 yards... but I could always file the V notch a little more to one side or the other as needed, if I ever decided I wanted to shoot this rifle further than 300 yards

[hoss]

I've always been an anglophile... The lines of the Martini and the Enfield speak to me in a way no custom Weatherby ever has. Nice rifles.